going AF?

Ed Rasimus wrote:
(AKav8r) wrote:

One of the reasons I was looking more at the airlift end of things was
because I plan on having a family and I've heard that you aren't as
likely to go on long TDY (3 months in Thailand, Korea,...) with that
sort of assignment as compared to fighters. Truth? Generalism?
False?

C'mon, you keep saying stuff like that and I'll begin to think you're
trolling. Fighters go TDY, and sometimes they stay home. Trash-haulers
go TDY at least as much and the very nature of the business is that
you are going to be traveling between widely separated points. This
ain't FEDEX and you won't be back at Memphis every morning.

I dunno about you Ed, but as a U.S. taxpayer I would most definitely
want to see this particular AF pilot candidate in an F-22 someday...

The guy just exudes that good ol' killer instinct.

AKav8r wrote:
I've already started the application process for OTS. I took the
AFOQT last week and will probably continue on the OTS path for now.
I'd like to get my master's eventually, but I'm not really wanting to
do that right now. I'm a pilot applicant and will not go into the AF
unless I do get a flight slot. That's the main reason I don't want to
do ROTC. I want to continue my piloting career one way or another.

Realize that less than 10% of the OTS applicants for pilots get
selected. The first Air Force priority for pilot slots is the academy
followed by ROTC. OTS is for the overflow. Even the number of non
flying officers commissioned through has been greatly reduced due to the
larger number of ROTC students seeking commissions. That said OTS is a
shaky proposition unless you have over a 1000 hours, a PCSM over 95 and
a GPA greater than 3.7 or are prior enlisted.

ROTC on the other hand has a 60-70% selection rate, and very few ROTC
pilot applicants have over 20 flying hours, much less over 200. Getting
a masters degree while in ROTC saves you from working a full time job
while trying to take night classes and schedule classes around
deployments. Pay now or pay later...

I don't think they give you any credit for more than 200 hours as far
at the PCIM score is concerned, but of course my experience would be a
plus in UPT.

Not towards you PCSM score, but there is also a box on the application
that lists your total hours which the board also looks at. Who's more
competitive some one with a PCSM of 90 who has 201 hours or some one
with a 85 and 1500 hours? Hint, the board is looking for who wants to
be an officer and then who shows the greatest chance of success in SUPT.
Officership is important and flight training is very expensive.

I wouldn't be too disappointed if I got a C-130 (multi-engine turbine
time), but the problem is that I would be locked into only flying the
C-130. The C-130 can do some awesome things as far as assault
landings, short/rough field ops (beta range is cool), and of course
there's the AC-130.... The airplane I would most like to fly is the
C-17. I know it would be kind of hard to go directly from UPT to the
C-17, but if I get a jet there are ways to train into different
aircraft within that category (C-5, C-141...). Of course if I got
assigned a fighter I wouldn't cry either. Although, I wonder about
the value of single-engine-turbine time (F-16) for a career outside of
the AF after retirement. Any comments on that anyone?

You need to decide if you're in this because you want to be an officer
and be part of the most power Air Force in the world, or if you want to
be paid to build hours to as Ed says "haul trash" for 6 figures. If its
the latter their are plenty of regional out there to build hours and
you'll get into the right seat of a airline faster than spending 11
years in the Air Force and getting out.

Personally I absolutely love being an officer, and turned down a job
paying three times what I make now in a part of a company that was core
to what they did. I would stay in maintenance and turn down a 6 figure
job in industry in a heart beat. Unfortunately, the only way I can stay
in the operational Air Force is by becoming a pilot due to my 2
engineering degrees. What's not so bad is that I love flying and love
tactical aviation even more. The only thing I've wanted to do my entire
life is to fly fighters or bombers. The only thing I would leave it for
is family since I think those vows are more important than my oath to
our country. Even then I would serve my commitment and find a way to
hold my family together until that time.

Michael Kelly, Bone Maintainer

Thanks!

AKav8r wrote:
If you aren't firmly committed to fighters, don't consider it.


One of the reasons I was looking more at the airlift end of things was
because I plan on having a family and I've heard that you aren't as
likely to go on long TDY (3 months in Thailand, Korea,...) with that
sort of assignment as compared to fighters. Truth? Generalism?
False?

That's not true. AMC airlift pilots more often than not are away from
home more than ACC, USAFE, and PACAF fighter pilots. Instead of being
gone for 90 days at a time every 15 months they're gone a week here, 3
or 4 days there, and back for short times in between. ACC is pretty
much a 8-5 five day a week operation in the states. AMC is 24/7 always.
In two years Dyess B-1's have only done one deployment(to Guam), while
the C-130 guys have been continuously deployed to austere locations the
entire time.


If you're looking for a way to build hours and be trained for an airline
job go fly for a regional. If you love flying and want to serve your
country join the military. If you fall into the latter category but
your family can't handle you being gone then you can get out in 10 years
and fly for the reserves.

Michael Kelly, Bone Maintainer


-AKav8r

On 21 Feb 2004 19:42:07 -0800, (AKav8r) wrote:

I'm a CFI and am looking at going into the AF to fly. What are my
chances of getting a jet as opposed to the good old C-130? I'm
wondering because I am going into this at a relatively older age than
most of the jet guys do. I've heard also if you don't have vision of
20/20 or close too it you will most likely end up with a prop plane.
Any truth to this? Of course this isn't official policy that I can
see, but these are the rumors I'm hearing.

-24 years old
-20/50 vision, correctable to 20/20
-white (1st thing recruiter asked if I was Hispanic or
non-Hispanic...)
-male

Found this today, a somewhat tongue-in-cheek answer to some of your
questions:

To Lt Col Van Wickler:

Sir, I am DJ Baker and I would appreciate it if you
could tell me what it takes to be an F-16 fighter
pilot of the USAF. What classes should I take in high
school to help the career I want to take later in my
life? What could I do to get in the academy?

Sincerely,

DJ Baker

Dear DJ,

Obviously, through no fault of your own, your young,
impressionable brain has been poisoned by the
superfluous, hyped-up, "Top Gun" media portrayal of
fighter pilots. Unfortunately, this portrayal could
not be further from the truth. In my experience, I've
found most fighter pilots pompous, back-stabbing,
momma's boys with inferiority complexes, as well as
being extremely over-rated aeronautically. However,
rather than dash your budding dreams of becoming a
USAF pilot, I offer the following alternative. What
you REALLY want to aspire to is the exciting,
challenging, and rewarding world of TACTICAL AIRLIFT.
And this, young DJ, means one thing--the venerable,
workhorse C-130.

I can guarantee no fighter pilot can brag that he has
led a 12-ship formation down a valley at 300 ft above
the ground, while trying to interpret a 9-line to a
new DZ, avoiding pop-up threats, and coordinating with
AWACS, all while eating a box lunch, with the engineer
in the back taking a leak, the navigator reading a
Penthouse, and the co-pilot puking in his trash can!

I tell you, DJ, TAC Airlift is where it's at. Where
else is it legal to throw tanks, HMMWVs, and other
crap out the back of an airplane, and not even worry
about it when the chute doesn't open and it torpedoes
the General's staff car! No where else can you land on
a 3000' dirt strip, kick a bunch of ammo and stuff off
the ramp without even stopping, then take off again
before range control can call and tell you you've
landed on the wrong LZ! And talk about exotic
travel--when C-130s go somewhere, they GO somewhere
(usually for 3 months, unfortunately). This gives you
the opportunity to immerse yourself in the culture
enough to give any local population a bad taste in
their mouths, not something those strat-lift pilots
can do from their airport hotel rooms!

As far as recommendations for your course of study, I
offer these. Take a lot of math courses. You will need
all the advanced math skills you can muster to
facilitate the calculation of per diem rates around
the world, and when trying to split up the crew's bar
tab so that the co-pilot really believes he owes 85%
of the whole thing. Health sciences are important,
too. You will need a thorough knowledge of biology to
make those educated guesses of how much longer you can
drink beer before the tremendous case of Montazuma
revenge catches up to you from that meal you ate at
that place that had the belly dancers in some
God-forsaken foreign country whose name you can't even
pronounce!

Social studies are beneficial. It is important for a
good TAC Airlifter to have the cultural knowledge to
be able to ascertain the exact location of the nearest
bar in any country in the world, then be able to
convince the local authorities to release the
loadmaster after he offends every sensibility of the
local religion and culture. A Foreign language is
helpful, but not required.

You will never be able to pronounce the names of the
NAVAIDs in France, and it's much easier to ignore them
and go where you want to anyway. A study of geography
is also paramount. You will need to know the basic
location of all the places you've been when you get
back from your TDY and are ready to stick those little
pins in that huge world map you've got taped to your
living room wall, right next to that gigantic wooden
giraffe statue and beer stein collection.

Well, DJ, I hope this little note inspires you. And by
the way, forget about that Academy thing. All TAC
Airlifters know that there are waaay too few women and
too little alcohol there to provide a well-balanced
education. A nice, big state college would be a much
better choice.

Good luck and see you on the SKE scope!


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: going AF?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 2/26/04 6:21 AM Pacific Standard Time

I'm a CFI and am looking at going into the AF to fly. What are my
chances of getting a jet as opposed to the good old C-130? I'm
wondering because I am going into this at a relatively older age than

From what I hear from the pilots at Nellis, "good hands" has something to do
with it.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 26 Feb 2004 14:32:58 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: going AF?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 2/26/04 6:21 AM Pacific Standard Time

I'm a CFI and am looking at going into the AF to fly. What are my
chances of getting a jet as opposed to the good old C-130? I'm
wondering because I am going into this at a relatively older age than

From what I hear from the pilots at Nellis, "good hands" has something to do
with it.


Arthur Kramer

Y mas grande cojones.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Subject: going AF?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 2/26/04 6:50 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 26 Feb 2004 14:32:58 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: going AF?
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 2/26/04 6:21 AM Pacific Standard Time

I'm a CFI and am looking at going into the AF to fly. What are my
chances of getting a jet as opposed to the good old C-130? I'm
wondering because I am going into this at a relatively older age than

From what I hear from the pilots at Nellis, "good hands" has something to do
with it.


Arthur Kramer

Y mas grande cojones.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Das ist immer wahr.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote

I'm a CFI and am looking at going into the AF to fly. What are my
chances of getting a jet as opposed to the good old C-130? I'm
wondering because I am going into this at a relatively older age than

From what I hear from the pilots at Nellis, "good hands" has something to do
with it.

Props and jets take the same set of hands. If you want to make General before
you retire, your chances are greater anywhere outside of fighters. If you just have
to be a single-place pilot, then plan on getting RIF'd at Captain, or making
Major on the second cycle.

Most of all, have fun, buy all the life insurance you can afford, as you will
probably die in battle.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote

Y mas grande cojones.

and no hemorrhoids.

If you want to make General before
you retire, your chances are greater anywhere outside of fighters.

Which Air Force is that? The current Air Force leaders (3 & 4 Star) are
affectionately dubbed (by us "non-fighter" types) "the fighter mafia".

If you just have
to be a single-place pilot, then plan on getting RIF'd at Captain, or making
Major on the second cycle.

???? No pilots were hit in the last RIF (1992), and while I'm sure they're out
there, I've yet to meet a passed over (for O-4) fighter pilot.

Most of all, have fun, buy all the life insurance you can afford, as you will
probably die in battle.

The last 3 conflicts show you've got a greater chance of being killed in a
training accident then in battle.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"