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#21
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 7:37:05 PM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote:
Evening Bob, What are the benefits of staying in the restricted category? I am really curious. All 3 of the Pawnees I fly have a standard airworthiness certificate. Regards, Charlie Early morning Charlie, Export and import paperwork and cost, Maintenance cost IA vs AP, and making changes in things that do not change design. power or thrust. Another benefit is noise abatement restrictions or lack of. |
#22
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
Ditto all what Bob said
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#23
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
Related to this topic: We have learned from bad experience that one must not "split" any part of a conversion to towing between 2 different FSDOs. The FAA does not always function as a unified agency and in our case the FSDO where the seller was located converted the certificate from "restricted - agriculture" to "restricted- glider/banner tow." BUT the FSDO where we (the buyer) were located refused the paperwork to install the tow hook. They actually claimed that the first FSDO acted improperly in converting the certificate. Essentially, one FAA office was claiming that another FAA office screwed up. It took me (a lawyer and then club president) 8 months to solve that problem. So, absent a really good reason, I think converting a certificate from Restricted to Standard is just asking for trouble.
ROY |
#24
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
Related to this topic: We have learned from bad experience that one must not "split" any part of a conversion to towing between 2 different FSDOs.
As one of my FSDO contacts often said, "The FAA has about 92 FSDOs. Each one independently owned and operated." |
#25
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 3:57:08 PM UTC-8, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 9:30:01 AM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote: Good morning Bob. From a club standpoint it probably doesn’t make much difference. From a possible personal airplane that you let out for towing it would make difference. Restricted means just that. Towing glider or whatever the restriction is, ferry flights, training flights, etc. Look at 91.313 Standard Airworthiness certificate with a 337 for the tow hook is a reasonable route to go. Good evening Charlie, it actually is up to the FSDO to determine if they want to change the restriction application. Some of them just leave them the way they were and do not worry about changing the restriction classification. Why change it?? Are you planning on teaching in the PAwnee, that would be very uncomfortable. There is no provision that states that you cannot fly the Pawnee anywhere you wish, I have had a couple of mine into some pretty big airports and never had an inspector ask me what I was spraying. Keeping the Pawnee in the restricted category brings about many benefits. Bob There is no provision that states that you cannot fly the [Restricted] Pawnee anywhere you wish Yes, there is. 91.313 states: (e) Except when operating in accordance with the terms and conditions of a certificate of waiver or special operating limitations issued by the Administrator, no person may operate a restricted category civil aircraft within the United States - (1) Over a densely populated area; (2) In a congested airway; or (3) Near a busy airport where passenger transport operations are conducted. |
#26
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
Start HERE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYkDRiEnYwA and rummage
around.Â* Or just look for "Scrappy" on youtube and start from the beginning on the design philosophy. On 11/10/2019 8:01 AM, Charles Longley wrote: I can’t find it. Mike Patey does some pretty cool stuff! Bummer on Draco. I wonder if an O540 is practical in a Super Cub? -- Dan, 5J |
#27
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
This regulation is so vaguely written by the FAA as to being meaningless. Speaking from experience operation a restricted category aircraft ( duster), we run into these three “restrictions” all the time. One fsdo’s definition of densely populated is not the same as anothers. Same goes for a busy airway. As for pasenger carrying airport, every airport that has a guy giving his neighbor a ride, is a passenger carrying airport. These so called restrictions were designed to be vague for the specific purpose of giving the feds legal latitude in case of an incident.
I can tell you practically speaking they are ignored. |
#28
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
On Monday, November 11, 2019 at 2:51:08 PM UTC-5, wrote:
This regulation is so vaguely written by the FAA as to being meaningless. Speaking from experience operation a restricted category aircraft ( duster), we run into these three “restrictions” all the time. One fsdo’s definition of densely populated is not the same as anothers.. Same goes for a busy airway. As for pasenger carrying airport, every airport that has a guy giving his neighbor a ride, is a passenger carrying airport. These so called restrictions were designed to be vague for the specific purpose of giving the feds legal latitude in case of an incident. I can tell you practically speaking they are ignored. Oh, the old 91.1?? I have to laugh when you speak about that FAR! I have landed a Pawnee in many airports. talked to many control towers and not one time did anyone say that you cannot land here. Also have flown over many congested areas, Oklahoma City, Dallas, New Orleans, Atlanta, WPB, Orl, They never told me to stay away. |
#29
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
Yeh Bob, we ferry in and out of major air centers all year long, go to airshows, do spray demonstrations etc. Never ever been questioned. I have even been ramp checked and the issue of being restricted, experimental, or standard has never come up. My advice? Quit looking for reds under beds, dont make trouble for yourselves by opening up cans of worms. Leave your classification as is.
Dan |
#30
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Pawnee TOST Hook Installation FAA Paperwork
Well I found one thing you can’t do with a restricted airworthiness certificate. Fly into a foreign country without their express permission. One of the Pawnees I fly was in 50 Shades of Grey which was filmed in Canada. If I ever buy a personal Pawnee I’ll probably move it to a standard airworthiness certificate if it doesn’t have one already.
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