When does IFR begin in VFR?

A Lieberman wrote:


ATC came back and said, 43 Lima, cleared to Covington LA as filed, climb to
5000, squawk 1234. I think, by me saying "ready to receive clearance",
triggered the response.

No, he came right back with your clearance because he knew exactly where
you were. It had nothing to do with your being ready to copy a
clearance. Nobody gets an IFR clearance unless the controller knows
where you are.

On 2/6/05 10:04 PM, in article , "A
Lieberman" wrote:


I would suspect, until you hear "CRAFT" from ATC, you are still under VFR
rules.

Allen

Yep, thanks. There wasn't much chance of actual anyway. Everything was at
12K.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

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Wizard of Draws wrote:

On the ground, they told me it would be faster
if I took off VFR and opened my plan in the air, so I did.

Hey, Jeff, since you received a lot of answers to your direct question, I
thought I'd take a different slant with your post. In response to the
above quote, consider this article:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189034-1.html

This article, coupled with a "learning" experience I had last summer have
taught me to really ensure there are comfortable VFR conditions for many
miles surrounding the airport before I launch VFR expecting to pick up an
IFR clearance in the air.

Just something to consider for future flights.

--
Peter







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In article ,
"Peter R." wrote:

Wizard of Draws wrote:

On the ground, they told me it would be faster
if I took off VFR and opened my plan in the air, so I did.

Hey, Jeff, since you received a lot of answers to your direct question, I
thought I'd take a different slant with your post. In response to the
above quote, consider this article:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189034-1.html

This article, coupled with a "learning" experience I had last summer have
taught me to really ensure there are comfortable VFR conditions for many
miles surrounding the airport before I launch VFR expecting to pick up an
IFR clearance in the air.

Just something to consider for future flights.

The avweb article doesn't say who the pilot was talking to on the ground.
If it's FSS, I could see that happening.

On the other hand, small airports often have direct comm with ATC; the guy
you're talking to on the ground is the same guy you'll be talking to in the
air. In a situation like that, it's hard to see how things could get lost.

Roy Smith wrote:

On the other hand, small airports often have direct comm with ATC;

True, but many airports in mountainous areas do not. These are the
airports where it might be tempting to depart VFR rather than wait 10 to 15
minutes for the inbound IFR arrival to land and cancel.

In good visibility, high ceiling weather, departing VFR wouldn't be an
issue. In marginal VFR weather where one might not be able to raise ATC in
the air without climbing into the clouds despite being told that one could,
it will be an issue. I discovered this butt clenching experience and I
won't do it again.

--
Peter







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Roy Smith wrote:

On the other hand, small airports often have direct comm with ATC; the guy
you're talking to on the ground is the same guy you'll be talking to in the
air. In a situation like that, it's hard to see how things could get lost.

The guy who wrote the article really knows his stuff. He is a working
controller, smart, has a great attitude, and is a NATCA safety representative.

He really drives the point home about biz jets launching VFR. The performance
requirements and distances covered can get you in trouble in a hurry, much more
so than with a Skylane.

On 2/6/05 11:35 PM, in article
, "Peter R."
wrote:

Wizard of Draws wrote:

On the ground, they told me it would be faster
if I took off VFR and opened my plan in the air, so I did.

Hey, Jeff, since you received a lot of answers to your direct question, I
thought I'd take a different slant with your post. In response to the
above quote, consider this article:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/189034-1.html

This article, coupled with a "learning" experience I had last summer have
taught me to really ensure there are comfortable VFR conditions for many
miles surrounding the airport before I launch VFR expecting to pick up an
IFR clearance in the air.

Just something to consider for future flights.

Yessir, learned that one back in November during a couple of flights with
actual. Ceilings can vary quite a bit from reported as I found out, so I
won't be launching without a VFR safety net.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Lot's of good answers given. Welcome to the learning portion of your
lifelong IFR classroom.

I would add that if you ever find yourself changing altitude without ATC
prompting or as the result of a specfic clearance (plan means nothing),
something is wrong.

Hey, don't stop filing on those VFR days - it really helps learn the
system without IMC distractions.

Wizard of Draws wrote:
I took a short XC today after a layoff of a few months due to real life
constraints and weather. I filed IFR even though it was VFR because I wanted
to get back into the groove of communicating with ATC.
I filed for 5000 going east. On the ground, they told me it would be faster
if I took off VFR and opened my plan in the air, so I did.

I was at 5500 when I finally got through since I was VFR, but all I was
given initially was a squawk code with no altitude assignment or clearance.
I assumed that I was IFR at this point so I began to descend to 5000 per my
flight plan. As I did I asked ATC if he had an altitude assignment, and he
came back with 6000, cleared direct. No problem, I pull back up and fly as
I'm told.

So, was I IFR as soon as I was given a squawk and required to fly my flight
plan, or should I have waited to change from a VFR altitude to an IFR
altitude until I was given specific instructions?

On 2/7/05 2:47 PM, in article
, "Maule Driver"
wrote:

Lot's of good answers given. Welcome to the learning portion of your
lifelong IFR classroom.

I would add that if you ever find yourself changing altitude without ATC
prompting or as the result of a specfic clearance (plan means nothing),
something is wrong.

Hey, don't stop filing on those VFR days - it really helps learn the
system without IMC distractions.


Filing IFR is too much fun not to do it as often as I can. And anytime I can
have a second set of eyeballs working for me...
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Wow!
1) You are not "IFR" in controlled airspace (anything but G) until you
are told "Cleared to somewhere".
2) You must tell ATC "I'd like to pick up my IFR". They will not simply
give it to you when you call up. Most likely its not even in front of
them.
3) If you were "IFR" you CANNOT change your altitude w/o ATC oking it.
4) You said it was "VFR". There really is no such thing. It can be
"VMC" or "VFR conditions" but VFR is a set of regulatory requirements,
not weather.

So, you can be IFR in VMC, IFR in IMC or VFR in VMC. I wouldn't
recommend VFR in IMC though.

-Robert, CFI