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#11
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I've seen several references to troops in Vietnam (and probably other places) sitting on their helmets Not a very comfortable seat! What I saw was helicopter pilots siitting on their flak jackets. all the best -- Dan Ford email: (requires authentication) see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
#12
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(ArtKramr) wrote:
No balls at all. At least not as much as you had when you flew all your missions.. Tell us about it More to the point, they allowed Griego to keep *his* balls by using his flak jacket in a clever manner. John Comer's B-17 memoirs (engineer/top turret gunner) recounts their navigator having the equipment shop stitch up protective armor for his crotch that laced elaborately over his normal flight gear. One day they were assigned several new crewmembers, who arrived at the flight line jittery and gray-faced with worry. The navigator launched into an elaborate tirade about the Nazi Flak gunners trying to shoot him in the crotch, and how he wasn't going to let them, etc - insisting the new guys help him lace up the crotch armor while cussing the Flak gunners and every other German he could think of. The crew loosened up and flew a fairly tough mission where they performed very well. Sometimes a little improvisation with the body armor is just the ticket. There are plenty of first-person accounts of Huey crews in Vietnam who had Flak jackets on their floors; Cobra pilots, too (hard to imagine in that tight space, but...) ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#13
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On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:37:33 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote: How many people are like me, wincing whenever someone is killed in Iraq? I keep a sort of subconscious tally, the way I'd measure the miles around an island when I've set out to walk around it. Six months of losses in Iraq equal about one day in Vietnam at the height of the American involvement, yet the Good People sigh about the "quagmire" we're in. Any death is regretable, but as John Stuart Mill noted, "War is an ugly thing...." Thinking that we can live in world at peace without the sacrifice of warriors who are willing to do the necessary is pathetic and disgusting. I've got students at the college who occasionally raise the "quagmire" comment (it is, after all a political science course). I note for them that we've been involved in Iraq for less than a year. The active combat took place for less than a month. The total losses as you note, are considerably less than the nay-sayers best estimates. Halberstam wrote "Making of A Quagmire" in '68, when we had been in combat for five years, not ten months. At the time, we were commencing Vietnamization, the US withdrawal without national or regional stabilization. The result was the fall of SVN and the killing fields of Cambodia. Now, after 35 years we're seeing a rise of capitalism in Vietnam and collapse of the communist model. In Iraq, we saw this weekend the acceptance of an interim constitution with compromise between Sunni and Shi'ite factions on a government. The insurgents continue to cause damage, but they harm their nation's people much more than the US forces and beyond the liberals in America, the ones that are suffering and recognizing them for what they are will be the people of a free and democratic Iraq. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#14
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"Ragnar" wrote:
I don't have to fly missions in WW2 to know that deliberately and repeatedly disobeying a direct order reflects badly on any officer who condones the activity. That was as true in the AAC then as it is now in the USAF. So why wasn't the man disciplined after deliberately and repeatedly defying a direct order? Haven't figured this out by now?...hell, it never happened, it's a 'story' (sound familiar?). Art just thought it'd make a cute little story that a few might believe that's all. -- -Gord. |
#15
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Ed Rasimus wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:37:33 -0500, Cub Driver wrote: How many people are like me, wincing whenever someone is killed in Iraq? I keep a sort of subconscious tally, the way I'd measure the miles around an island when I've set out to walk around it. Six months of losses in Iraq equal about one day in Vietnam at the height of the American involvement, yet the Good People sigh about the "quagmire" we're in. Any death is regretable, but as John Stuart Mill noted, "War is an ugly thing...." Thinking that we can live in world at peace without the sacrifice of warriors who are willing to do the necessary is pathetic and disgusting. I've got students at the college who occasionally raise the "quagmire" comment (it is, after all a political science course). I note for them that we've been involved in Iraq for less than a year. The active combat took place for less than a month. The total losses as you note, are considerably less than the nay-sayers best estimates. Halberstam wrote "Making of A Quagmire" in '68, when we had been in combat for five years, not ten months. At the time, we were commencing Vietnamization, the US withdrawal without national or regional stabilization. The result was the fall of SVN and the killing fields of Cambodia. Now, after 35 years we're seeing a rise of capitalism in Vietnam and collapse of the communist model. In Iraq, we saw this weekend the acceptance of an interim constitution with compromise between Sunni and Shi'ite factions on a government. The insurgents continue to cause damage, but they harm their nation's people much more than the US forces and beyond the liberals in America, the ones that are suffering and recognizing them for what they are will be the people of a free and democratic Iraq. Ex post facto rationalization for a stupid blunder at the instigation of obvious traitors. Enjoy your false and absurdly expensive phoney moral gratification, stupid slave. Grantland Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" Smithsonian Institution Press ISBN #1-58834-103-8 |
#16
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#17
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Gord wrote:
Haven't figured this out by now?...hell, it never happened, it's a 'story' (sound familiar?). Art just thought it'd make a cute little story that a few might believe that's all. Are you telling us that Art is telling "There I was" stories? "Flat on my back at 10,000 feet while trying to dive bomb the..."? Rick |
#18
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#19
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"Gord Beaman" wrote in message ... (OXMORON1) wrote: Gord wrote: Haven't figured this out by now?...hell, it never happened, it's a 'story' (sound familiar?). Art just thought it'd make a cute little story that a few might believe that's all. Are you telling us that Art is telling "There I was" stories? "Flat on my back at 10,000 feet while trying to dive bomb the..."? Rick Well, let's put it this way, as Judge Judy says "You lie to me once and I'll doubt every word you say after that". Both Brooks and George Z caught Art lying. No doubt about it. What's your take on that?. I know what mine is. Doesn't Art claiming to be telling stories create a sort of disclaimer? |
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