LS6 (a, b) NEO

On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 5:07:54 PM UTC-4, Patrick (LS6-b EH) wrote:
We've been looking at this for the LS6-b I co-own. At last check, technical documentation to share with our installer was only for the 4... I'm not sure if they are fully ready on the 6, but they indicate that they are. I gather it's the same part, but may be behind on documentation...

The challenge for us (me) is that the Neo winglets reduce the max cockpit weight (pilot and 'luggage') by 10kg, which for us (me) is a deal-breaker.

I see on their website, that for the LS-4, "...Max. cockpit load may be increased!" Tell them you'd like the same thing for the LS-6b (don't wait for the tech bulletin to come out). If not, maybe ask if a redline reduction could be traded for cockpit load. They won't do these things if you don't ask; they still might not, but at least you tried.

Dan Daly wrote on 9/24/2020 2:59 PM:
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 5:07:54 PM UTC-4, Patrick (LS6-b EH) wrote:
We've been looking at this for the LS6-b I co-own. At last check, technical documentation to share with our installer was only for the 4... I'm not sure if they are fully ready on the 6, but they indicate that they are. I gather it's the same part, but may be behind on documentation...

The challenge for us (me) is that the Neo winglets reduce the max cockpit weight (pilot and 'luggage') by 10kg, which for us (me) is a deal-breaker.

I see on their website, that for the LS-4, "...Max. cockpit load may be increased!" Tell them you'd like the same thing for the LS-6b (don't wait for the tech bulletin to come out). If not, maybe ask if a redline reduction could be traded for cockpit load. They won't do these things if you don't ask; they still might not, but at least you tried.

I can imagine why the cockpit load would be reduced, but have no idea why it would
increased!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, 24 September 2020 at 23:47:32 UTC+1, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Daly wrote on 9/24/2020 2:59 PM:

I can imagine why the cockpit load would be reduced, but have no idea why it would
increased!

The maximum cockpit load can have 3 conditions - the all-up weight, the forward c of g limit, and the maximum weight of non-lifting parts

The last of these is related to the bending loads of the wing. Perhaps if the wingtip is made a bit heavier this relieves bending slightly and the max cockpit load might increase, depending on the other limits.

Admittedly this is speculation and could be ill-founded.

andy l wrote on 9/24/2020 5:20 PM:
On Thursday, 24 September 2020 at 23:47:32 UTC+1, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Daly wrote on 9/24/2020 2:59 PM:

I can imagine why the cockpit load would be reduced, but have no idea why it would
increased!

The maximum cockpit load can have 3 conditions - the all-up weight, the forward c of g limit, and the maximum weight of non-lifting parts

The last of these is related to the bending loads of the wing. Perhaps if the wingtip is made a bit heavier this relieves bending slightly and the max cockpit load might increase, depending on the other limits.

Admittedly this is speculation and could be ill-founded.

Winglets increase the lift of the outer end of the wing. This shift in wing lift
distribution increases the bending moment on the spars; reducing the cockpit load
could compensate for the increased bending moment. I'm guessing the winglet weight
is not enough to prevent the increase. I'm basing this on retrofitting relatively
heavy winglets to my ASH26E, and noticing in flight that the wing tips were higher
than before. I confirmed the extra bend using before and after pictures taken from
the cockpit.

But, I don't know why they did reduce the cockpit load, so I hope someone will
find out and tell us.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 15:47:27 -0700, Eric Greenwell
wrote:


I can imagine why the cockpit load would be reduced, but have no idea why it would
increased!


In the case of the LS-4 the standard winglets reduce cockpit load
quite a bit, and compared to the standard winglets the NEO winglets
increase cockpit load again.

Cheers
Andreas

perjantai 25. syyskuuta 2020 klo 0.07.54 UTC+3 Patrick (LS6-b EH) kirjoitti:
We've been looking at this for the LS6-b I co-own. At last check, technical documentation to share with our installer was only for the 4... I'm not sure if they are fully ready on the 6, but they indicate that they are. I gather it's the same part, but may be behind on documentation...

The challenge for us (me) is that the Neo winglets reduce the max cockpit weight (pilot and 'luggage') by 10kg, which for us (me) is a deal-breaker.


Hi,

the latest info from the factory in late August was that they are expecting to get the certification completed by the end of September for LS6b. I will probably be asking again next week ;-)

BR Veli-Matti

Hello everyone,
the first LS6 B with Neo winglets exist and already flown in the past.
The process of certification is still going on.

If all goes well, there might be a chance that DG will also deal with winglets on the LS6a. The flutter tendency of the wings of the LS6(a) is probably seen as the big critical point.
From a technical point of view (separation point in the wing and mounting of the winglets) a lot has already been done for the LS6a due to the development of the winglets on the LS6b.
If there will be a change of the allowed weight of the non-load bearing parts of the LS6(a/b) is not known to me yet.

With the LS1 and LS4 the permissible weight of the non-load bearing parts has probably been changed by newer and more accurate calculation methods.

If somebody owns a LS6a and is interested in retrofitting the Neo Winglets he can contact me. The higher the demand is, the higher is the probability that the winglets on the a model can actually be realized sometime.

I hope I could give some useful information and wish you all the best,

Lukas

Hi Lukas,
I didn't see a way to reply to you directly. I own an LS6a and would like to be included on any list of interested owners regarding these winglets. If you don't mind, please let me know if there is any news on this possibility.
Jim

Lukas, i own an ls6 as well, and i would be interested in neo winglets!
Domenico

On Tuesday, 29 September 2020 at 4:16:29 am UTC+10, wrote:
Hello everyone,
the first LS6 B with Neo winglets exist and already flown in the past.
The process of certification is still going on.

If all goes well, there might be a chance that DG will also deal with winglets on the LS6a. The flutter tendency of the wings of the LS6(a) is probably seen as the big critical point.
From a technical point of view (separation point in the wing and mounting of the winglets) a lot has already been done for the LS6a due to the development of the winglets on the LS6b.
If there will be a change of the allowed weight of the non-load bearing parts of the LS6(a/b) is not known to me yet.

With the LS1 and LS4 the permissible weight of the non-load bearing parts has probably been changed by newer and more accurate calculation methods.

If somebody owns a LS6a and is interested in retrofitting the Neo Winglets he can contact me. The higher the demand is, the higher is the probability that the winglets on the a model can actually be realized sometime.

I hope I could give some useful information and wish you all the best,

Hi Lucas,
I own a LS6a in Australia. I am very interested in the winglets, however, since the glider was in a crash before I owned it i can't afford a lower cockpit load. I also want to keep flying with water.
Regards Mart