What about the AIM-54 Pheonix Missile?

When the US Navy is going to retire all of its F-14 Tomcats, what will
happen with the feared long-range Pheonix missile? As I know, the F-14 is
the only frame that can carry this weapon. Or am I wrong? Will the Super
Hornet use the AIM-54? Or will they retire the AIM-54 also, as it has no
longer such a military value as during the Cold War?

Thx for the Info

Flub wrote:

When the US Navy is going to retire all of its F-14 Tomcats, what will
happen with the feared long-range Pheonix missile? As I know, the F-14 is
the only frame that can carry this weapon. Or am I wrong? Will the Super
Hornet use the AIM-54? Or will they retire the AIM-54 also, as it has no
longer such a military value as during the Cold War?


Phoenix will be retired together with the Tomcat around 2010(?).

Andreas

Andreas Parsch wrote in message ...
Flub wrote:

When the US Navy is going to retire all of its F-14 Tomcats, what will
happen with the feared long-range Pheonix missile? As I know, the F-14 is
the only frame that can carry this weapon. Or am I wrong? Will the Super
Hornet use the AIM-54? Or will they retire the AIM-54 also, as it has no
longer such a military value as during the Cold War?


Phoenix will be retired together with the Tomcat around 2010(?).

"By 2007" according to a March 2003 report:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...0327-nns05.htm

Brooks


Andreas

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:58:58 +0200, Andreas Parsch wrote:

?


Phoenix will be retired together with the Tomcat around 2010(?).

How many are left ? It would have the makings of a seriously long legged
ARM.


greg

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"Flub" wrote in message

When the US Navy is going to retire all of its F-14 Tomcats, what will
happen with the feared long-range Pheonix missile? As I know, the
F-14 is the only frame that can carry this weapon. Or am I wrong?
Will the Super Hornet use the AIM-54? Or will they retire the AIM-54
also, as it has no longer such a military value as during the Cold
War?

The F-14As go away by the end of 2004 (if not earlier) and the Bs and Ds by
2007/2008.

I believe Phoenix is actually being retired before the F-14. Earlier this
year, they talked about a "vertical kill" to the Phoenix budget line to free
up money for new programs. If that happened, look for the missile to
disappear by 2004.

No other aircraft can fire Pheonix, but the rnage of AMRAAM keeps creeping
up. At some point, it may be a match to AIM-545 (perhaps with a ramjet
engine like Meteor, perhaps not).

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

In article et, "Thomas
Schoene" wrote:

"Flub" wrote in message

When the US Navy is going to retire all of its F-14 Tomcats, what will
happen with the feared long-range Pheonix missile? As I know, the
F-14 is the only frame that can carry this weapon. Or am I wrong?
Will the Super Hornet use the AIM-54? Or will they retire the AIM-54
also, as it has no longer such a military value as during the Cold
War?

The F-14As go away by the end of 2004 (if not earlier) and the Bs and Ds by
2007/2008.

I believe Phoenix is actually being retired before the F-14. Earlier this
year, they talked about a "vertical kill" to the Phoenix budget line to free
up money for new programs. If that happened, look for the missile to
disappear by 2004.

No other aircraft can fire Pheonix, but the rnage of AMRAAM keeps creeping
up. At some point, it may be a match to AIM-545 (perhaps with a ramjet
engine like Meteor, perhaps not).

That won't help the F-14D fleet though. They can't shoot AIM-120 without
aircraft upgrades and radar software. Have to balance the cost of
that against the cost of keeping some AIM-54s alive.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

(Harry Andreas) wrote in message ...
In article et, "Thomas
Schoene" wrote:

"Flub" wrote in message

When the US Navy is going to retire all of its F-14 Tomcats, what will
happen with the feared long-range Pheonix missile? As I know, the
F-14 is the only frame that can carry this weapon. Or am I wrong?
Will the Super Hornet use the AIM-54? Or will they retire the AIM-54
also, as it has no longer such a military value as during the Cold
War?

The F-14As go away by the end of 2004 (if not earlier) and the Bs and Ds by
2007/2008.

I believe Phoenix is actually being retired before the F-14. Earlier this
year, they talked about a "vertical kill" to the Phoenix budget line to free
up money for new programs. If that happened, look for the missile to
disappear by 2004.

No other aircraft can fire Pheonix, but the rnage of AMRAAM keeps creeping
up. At some point, it may be a match to AIM-545 (perhaps with a ramjet
engine like Meteor, perhaps not).

That won't help the F-14D fleet though. They can't shoot AIM-120 without
aircraft upgrades and radar software. Have to balance the cost of
that against the cost of keeping some AIM-54s alive.

Not necessarily. Given that the air threat to the CV's, or for that
matter to their strike packages, is greatly reduced these days, the
USN may be willing to place the major air defense/air superiority
roles solely in the hands of the F-18's with their AIM-120's, and use
the diminishing Tomcat fleet in their "Bombcat" role, with only
AIM-9's for self defense.

Brooks

Kevin Brooks wrote:

: Not necessarily. Given that the air threat to the CV's, or for that
: matter to their strike packages, is greatly reduced these days, the
: USN may be willing to place the major air defense/air superiority
: roles solely in the hands of the F-18's with their AIM-120's, and use

Well, it does not need to be a 'great' threat to do serious
damage: Look at the achievements of the Argentineans with
only five Exocet missiles. One of the lessons of the Falklands
war (now again conviently forgotten by the British) is that
a fleet really needs a strong BVR defense, capable of
intercepting low-flying aircraft at distances up to 100 km
away.

But AIM-54 is now a relatively old weapon (although upgraded
several times) and it was designed primarily to defend the
fleet against Soviet bombers attacking at high and medium
altitude, launching the very big Soviet cruise missiles of
the period. The threat has changed, the attack profile of
an enemy force would now probably bring them in just a few
feet above the waves, only poppping up to fire their missiles.

It is likely that AIM-120 has better performance against
low-flying targets, although AIM-54's range against
high-flying targets is still unrivalled. The F-18E/AIM-120
combination may actually provide a better fleet defense
than F-14/AIM-54.

Emmanuel Gustin
http://users.skynet.be/Emmanuel.Gustin/

"Emmanuel.Gustin" wrote in message
...
Kevin Brooks wrote:

snip

But AIM-54 is now a relatively old weapon (although upgraded
several times) and it was designed primarily to defend the
fleet against Soviet bombers attacking at high and medium
altitude, launching the very big Soviet cruise missiles of
the period. The threat has changed, the attack profile of
an enemy force would now probably bring them in just a few
feet above the waves, only poppping up to fire their missiles.

Emanuel,
already the Tu-22Ms could attack approaching at low levels: also, the Kh-22M
had a low-level trajectory selectable.

In the 1990s the threat has changed only in so far that it became more
dangerous: the stuff that could now be eventually attacking USN carriers are
such things like supersonic cruise missiles, and Su-30s that can fire back
(which the Tu-22M-3s couldn't).

It is likely that AIM-120 has better performance against
low-flying targets, although AIM-54's range against
high-flying targets is still unrivalled. The F-18E/AIM-120
combination may actually provide a better fleet defense
than F-14/AIM-54.

I strongly doubt this: no version of the F/A-18 matches the speed and/or
endurance of the F-14 - especially not the combination of these two
characteristics.

As you certainly know, Emanuel, it makes a huge difference if one is
intercepting an incoming threat some 100km away from the carrier, or 250km
away.

As next, given the lack of speed and endurance, there is also the lack of
range: the AIM-120 can't - and will for the next ten years or so also not be
able to - intercept enemy at such ranges like the AIM-54 can. The result of
this is that the slower, and shorter-ranged F/A-18s, armed only with
AIM-120s, are in a danger of literaly being overrun by faster,
longer-ranged, and fighters - such like Su-30s - that carry weapons with a
similar (or potentially better) range to that of the AIM-120.

Given the fact that the pk of the AIM-54 in combat against threats of its
time was higher than the pk of the AIM-120 in combat against the threats of
its time, it is doubtfull any F/A-18 would have a serious chance of
intercepting and stopping - just for example - a formation of four such
opponents like Su-30s (regardless how far out from the carrier), without
either coming too late on the station, or being outranged by enemy weapons
and shot down in return, or outrun, or outmaneuvered.... or all of this
combined.

Given that also the new cruise-missiles became much more sophisticated,
faster and longer-ranged than such earlier stuff like Kh-22/AS-4 Kitchens
(which were nifty and malfunctioning weapons any way), this threat did
actually not diminish but is increasing, while the AIM-120-armed F/A-18 has
much less chance of intercepting such threats (especially because of the
lack of speed and the weapons-range) than even the 20-years older
AIM-54-armed F-14...

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

"Flub" wrote in message
...
When the US Navy is going to retire all of its F-14 Tomcats, what will
happen with the feared long-range Pheonix missile?

Its debateable how feared the Phoenix is. The Iranians claimed a number of
kills from theirs, but the reality is that the Phoenix never saw use in the
role it was designed for, which is defending carrier task groups at long
range from Soviet bomber attack.

tim gueguen 101867