Tow banner on a PP license

Tony Cox wrote:

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

No FSDO I know of will issue a banner tow waiver to a pilot who lacks
a commercial certificate, so the point is moot.

What criteria do they use? There's nothing in the FARs about
needing a commercial cert. Sounds like they are denying freedom
of speech. Why can't private pilots tow their own messages
around if they want to? (Playing devil's advocate here).

You are right, you actually don't need a CP cert to get the waiver. But
the FSDO would certainly be interested in having a friendly conversation at
some point during the process regarding what the waiver would be used for.
They would also be very interested to learn that the PP is planning to
engage in actvities involving a sign be towed for hire if they learned
that.

glider towing in the US for PP is authorized per the FARs.. he can log hours
toward additional ratings.. but he can not receive monetary compensation..

FAR91.309

BT

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, (Victor) said:
I have a friend that is purchasing a plane and will start a business
of tow banner. He said I could fly the plane for him without been paid
, this way I can get many hours on my logbook.

Is it legal to do banner towing on a PP license without receiving
payment for it?

"hours in my logbook" *is* payment, according to FAA prosecutions of
people doing something similar (glider towing is the case I remember most
clearly).

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
When the revolution comes, we'll need a longer wall.
-- Tom De Mulder

BTIZ wrote:
glider towing in the US for PP is authorized per the FARs.. he can log
hours
toward additional ratings.. but he can not receive monetary compensation..

FAR91.309

Perhaps I missed something in 91.309, but logging hours is "compensation" as
in "for hire or compensation".

Hilton

"Hilton" wrote in message
ink.net...
BTIZ wrote:
glider towing in the US for PP is authorized per the FARs.. he can log
hours
toward additional ratings.. but he can not receive monetary
compensation..

FAR91.309

Perhaps I missed something in 91.309, but logging hours is "compensation"
as
in "for hire or compensation".

Hilton


I should have elaborated,

FAR61.113(g) Private Pilot Privileges: A private pilot who meets the
requirements of 61.69 of this part may act as pilot in command of an
aircraft towing a glider.

FAR61.69 Glider towing: Experience and training requirements.

If you add in the information found in the FAA FAQ file for Part 61, you
will find that the "intent" is that the PP may log the hours while towing
gliders, and those hours may be used towards additional ratings. This is
directed towards glider "club" operations. It is not "intended" that a PP
may be compensated beyond hours in a log book and a PP cannot tow for a
Commercial Glider tow operation where the "owner" is receiving revenue for
the PP tow services.

Additional information may be found with the Soaring Society of America who
worked with the FAA to get the wording in FAR61.113(g) to allow soaring or
glider club operations who have limited funds and limited power rated pilots
to act as tow pilots.

BT

In article , Mike O'Malley wrote:
Well, I wouldn't call it VERY dangerous, but it is more hazardous than Sunday
morning coffee runs. Unless you fly those in a 60 year old airplane at 300'
while on the edge of a stall, day in and day out :-)

There are certainly hazards - the one tow operation I know of wrecks at
least one Pawnee a year banner towing.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

In article , Tow Chick wrote:
Is it legal to do banner towing on a PP license without receiving
payment for it?

No. First of all you need a waiver by the FAA before you can tow anything
around, but your mother-in-law in the back seat.

Not quite - although you cannot tow banners without a waiver, you can
certainly tow gliders without one (and it doesn't have to be your
mother-in-law in the glider, which is somewhat fortunate).

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

(Michael) wrote:

No FSDO I know of will issue a banner tow waiver to a pilot who lacks
a commercial certificate, so the point is moot.

There's no requirement for the banner tow pilot to have a
commercial license. Nothing in the commercial curriculum is
directed to banner towing. I agree it's the usual case that
waivers are given to CP's, but a high time private pilot
with experience towing gliders and showing banner pickup and
tow training should be able to get the waiver if they can
demonstrate they aren't going to be receiving prohibited
compensation.

Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

(Victor) wrote in message . com...
I have a friend that is purchasing a plane and will start a business
of tow banner. He said I could fly the plane for him without been paid
, this way I can get many hours on my logbook.

Is it legal to do banner towing on a PP license without receiving
payment for it?

Just a side note....

A friend of mine *was* a banner instructor before 9/11. He said since
then the banner towing business has been severly hurt. With 3 mile
restrictions around most sporting events the business is hurting.

I'm sure some people still tow over beaches or citys. But he said
after 9/11 the lack of need for banner instructors made him go back to
his other CFI/II duties. However, he's glad to be doing somthing
different now. I think his words were "If you think a 2 - 3 hour
student will kill you, try flying with a banner towing student..."

"BTIZ" wrote in message news:br8ac.64770$1I5.52101@fed1read01...
"Hilton" wrote in message
ink.net...
BTIZ wrote:
glider towing in the US for PP is authorized per the FARs.. he can log
hours
toward additional ratings.. but he can not receive monetary
compensation..

FAR91.309

Perhaps I missed something in 91.309, but logging hours is "compensation"
as
in "for hire or compensation".

Hilton


I should have elaborated,

FAR61.113(g) Private Pilot Privileges: A private pilot who meets the
requirements of 61.69 of this part may act as pilot in command of an
aircraft towing a glider.

FAR61.69 Glider towing: Experience and training requirements.

If you add in the information found in the FAA FAQ file for Part 61, you
will find that the "intent" is that the PP may log the hours while towing
gliders, and those hours may be used towards additional ratings. This is
directed towards glider "club" operations. It is not "intended" that a PP
may be compensated beyond hours in a log book and a PP cannot tow for a
Commercial Glider tow operation where the "owner" is receiving revenue for
the PP tow services.

Additional information may be found with the Soaring Society of America who
worked with the FAA to get the wording in FAR61.113(g) to allow soaring or
glider club operations who have limited funds and limited power rated pilots
to act as tow pilots.

BT


The reason you can tow gliders with a private (assuming the glider
pilot is paying some nominal fee for the tow and the pilot isn't
getting any of it) is because one of the glider associations has a
waver. Just like the ultra light association has FAA wavers.

-Robert

The reason you can tow gliders with a private (assuming the glider
pilot is paying some nominal fee for the tow and the pilot isn't
getting any of it) is because one of the glider associations has a
waver. Just like the ultra light association has FAA wavers.

-Robert

It's not a waiver if it is published in the FAR.

But the SSA did work with the FAA to get it published.

BT