If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
questions on multi-wing planforms
Great link, thanks.
Gerry "JP" wrote in message ... They "all" are here.... perhaps not the safest aerial vehicles made? http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/q0214.shtml JP I seem to remember having seen a really short span American design, which flew in the fifties or sixties. That was in an old issue of "Popular Mechanics" Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
questions on multi-wing planforms
"GTH" wrote in message ... Hi Gerry, Thanks for your response, Gilles. A bit of clarification, perhaps. This is not really a design to fullfill a mission. It's more of a "why not" exercise. Understand The very short wingspan is the only real design criteria, and it is just my idea rather than a definite need anyone has. OK. Just out of curiosity, is the short span intended for flight "requirements" (landing between telephone poles...), or storage considerations ? Not the same, of course, since for precise landings, handling qualities may be of prime importance. Or maybe is it just for the fun of short span ? That's it. Folding doesn't serve the purpose. I think the whole thing is inspired by an episode of a tv series call "galactica" or something of the sort where they had flyable motorcycles. Gerry The MCR 01 is a very interesting design, but with a wingspan of over 20 feet it doesn't fit my plan. Consider that if you made it a 10 foot span biplane it would perhaps fit the bill?? I could restate it this way, if you divided the 20 foot wingspan of the MCR 01 into two wings either tandem or stacked would it provide similar performance? How about 4 10 foot wings with one foot chord? I don't really know the answer, I'm just brainstorming to see if anyone else knows the answer. I believe that by stacking wings, you'll end up with a much different airplane. By the way, really short chord wings work very well, provided the design is correct. French aerodynamicist Michel Colomban designed the Cri Cri 10 ft span, 1 ft chord single seater 25 years ago, with really nice flight behavior. His last project will fly shortly with about 1.5 ft chord. I seem to remember having seen a really short span American design, which flew in the fifties or sixties. That was in an old issue of "Popular Mechanics" Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
questions on multi-wing planforms
pTooner wrote: Firstly, I am new here although I've been reading for a few days. For anyone with more knowledge than I, I keep considering building a small 4 wing aircraft. Not stacked, but two up front and two in the rear. I have read frequently of problems supposedly resulting from interference of the airflow between wings, but I can't seem to find anything very specific. I'm fairly confident that interference between the front wings (or rear) can be minimized by reasonable spacing and differing dihedral. I'm not sure what the effect of the airflow coming off the front wings will have on the rear set. I don't know whether I could remove most of the problem by having one set considerably higher (how much?) than the other set or if it is reasonable to have them on more or less the same height. The reason for the concept is trying to get a wingspan small enough to fit into a normal garage and conceivably take off and land from streets and highways. I visualise something in a two place plane that would fall into something of the appeal category of a motorcycle or small sports car. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Gerry Hi, Gerry! Just remember this: if you take someone's word that something won't work, you've only learned to pass that off as fact in the future, and thus contribute to possible anti-knowledge and myths. However, if you read as much as you can about a subject, then try it yourself, even if it doesn't work, you'll know why. Go to www.mbda.net and click on one of the little symbols in the lower left to get "search", then put in Diamond back". A very interesting joined-wing, extendable-wing concept! |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
questions on multi-wing planforms
ELIPPSE wrote:
pTooner wrote: Firstly, I am new here although I've been reading for a few days. For anyone with more knowledge than I, I keep considering building a small 4 wing aircraft. Not stacked, but two up front and two in the rear. I have read frequently of problems supposedly resulting from interference of the airflow between wings, but I can't seem to find anything very specific. I'm fairly confident that interference between the front wings (or rear) can be minimized by reasonable spacing and differing dihedral. I'm not sure what the effect of the airflow coming off the front wings will have on the rear set. I don't know whether I could remove most of the problem by having one set considerably higher (how much?) than the other set or if it is reasonable to have them on more or less the same height. The reason for the concept is trying to get a wingspan small enough to fit into a normal garage and conceivably take off and land from streets and highways. I visualise something in a two place plane that would fall into something of the appeal category of a motorcycle or small sports car. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Gerry Hi, Gerry! Just remember this: if you take someone's word that something won't work, you've only learned to pass that off as fact in the future, and thus contribute to possible anti-knowledge and myths. However, if you read as much as you can about a subject, then try it yourself, even if it doesn't work, you'll know why. Go to www.mbda.net and click on one of the little symbols in the lower left to get "search", then put in Diamond back". A very interesting joined-wing, extendable-wing concept! Gerry, Try NASA CR-178163 'Weight estimation techniques for composite airplanes in general aviation industry'. Published 1986. While the title says that it is for weight estimation, the report goes into pretty great detail about various wing configurations, straight, canard, biplane/dual wing, and swept forward/rearward and joined wing. In fact, it is the first report that I can recall ever seeing that did any actual analysis on joined wings. Lots of graphs showing the relative performance of differing staggers and separations. Sounds like it's just what you are looking for. |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
questions on multi-wing planforms
Morgans wrote:
"flybynightkarmarepair" wrote This is an admittedly arbitrary distinction. The cabin on a Dyke Delta is, again, IMHO, not well integrated into the fuselage/wing - MY definition of a lifting body is that it's ALL an integrated whole. So, in your opinion, the Hyper Bipe is not a lifting body? It provides substantial lift, therefore, it is a lifting body, in everyone's view, except yours. I submit that you are incorrect. Well, so does the Tailwind. But the trick is, alla these have - well - wings! |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
questions on multi-wing planforms
Stall speeds???
I believe that these aircrafts are the ones having the Vso and Vne far too close to each other :-) I would be more worried about the actual glide ratio that may beat even the space shuttle and that's scary. An engine out landing flare might be an experience of a life time? JP "cavelamb" wrote in message JP wrote: They "all" are here.... perhaps not the safest aerial vehicles made? http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/q0214.shtml JP Far Out, JP. But they didn't show weights or stall speeds... |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
questions on multi-wing planforms
"ELIPPSE" wrote in message ups.com... pTooner wrote: Firstly, I am new here although I've been reading for a few days. For anyone with more knowledge than I, I keep considering building a small 4 wing aircraft. Not stacked, but two up front and two in the rear. I have read frequently of problems supposedly resulting from interference of the airflow between wings, but I can't seem to find anything very specific. I'm fairly confident that interference between the front wings (or rear) can be minimized by reasonable spacing and differing dihedral. I'm not sure what the effect of the airflow coming off the front wings will have on the rear set. I don't know whether I could remove most of the problem by having one set considerably higher (how much?) than the other set or if it is reasonable to have them on more or less the same height. The reason for the concept is trying to get a wingspan small enough to fit into a normal garage and conceivably take off and land from streets and highways. I visualise something in a two place plane that would fall into something of the appeal category of a motorcycle or small sports car. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Gerry Hi, Gerry! Just remember this: if you take someone's word that something won't work, you've only learned to pass that off as fact in the future, and thus contribute to possible anti-knowledge and myths. However, if you read as much as you can about a subject, then try it yourself, even if it doesn't work, you'll know why. Go to www.mbda.net and click on one of the little symbols in the lower left to get "search", then put in Diamond back". A very interesting joined-wing, extendable-wing concept! Very interesting, thanks. Gerry |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Thrusting or Sucking (where's Howard Stern when we need him.) | Ken Kochanski (KK) | Soaring | 37 | January 14th 06 09:51 AM |
ANG Woman Wing Commander Doesn't See Herself as Pioneer, By Master Sgt. Bob Haskell | Otis Willie | Military Aviation | 0 | March 18th 04 08:40 PM |
Wing tip stalls | mat Redsell | Soaring | 5 | March 13th 04 05:07 PM |
Can someone explain wing loading? | Frederick Wilson | Home Built | 4 | September 10th 03 02:33 AM |
Wing Extensions | Jay | Home Built | 22 | July 27th 03 12:23 PM |