Should you tell Tower you're departing IFR

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

About 2-3 minutes.


Then the episode appears to be a brain fart on the part of the ground controller.

If so, what was it he did (or didn't do) incorrectly?

Thanks,
John

"John Clonts" wrote in message
...

If so, what was it he did (or didn't do) incorrectly?


It appears he forgot that he had just issued you an IFR clearance and
treated you as a VFR departure.

Slightly off topic, but ...

Commuting for work between ORL (Orlando Executive, near Orlando
International) and CDW (near New York / Newark congested area), I have
had excessive delays, waiting for IFR release, and / or covering lots of
extra miles being vectored over several counties for separation, I
adopted a new strategy which worked really well for me.

Most of my departures were in good VMC weather, which doubled the
frustrations of delays on IFR departures. On these good-weather days, I
filed the IFR flight plan to begin at a VOR or intersection along my
intended route -- maybe 20 or 30 miles from the departure point. I would
make no mention of "IFR" to ground control or clearance delivery -- just
tell them I was northbound (substitute appropriate direction) at 3,500
(substitute appropriate VFR altitude). This generally got me going
quickly. As soon as I was out of the area that experience had taught me
was ripe with vectors, I contacted the appropriate ATC facility to
request my clearance.

Between not having to wait for IFR release, and avoiding lots of vectors,
I easily shaved 15 to 30 minutes from my weekly commute between home and
work.

On 9/24/2005 8:13 AM, Peter wrote:
"L. R. Du Broff" wrote

I would
make no mention of "IFR" to ground control or clearance delivery -- just
tell them I was northbound (substitute appropriate direction) at 3,500
(substitute appropriate VFR altitude). This generally got me going
quickly. As soon as I was out of the area that experience had taught me
was ripe with vectors, I contacted the appropriate ATC facility to
request my clearance.

Between not having to wait for IFR release, and avoiding lots of vectors,
I easily shaved 15 to 30 minutes from my weekly commute between home and
work.

In the USA, can one depart VFR and then change to IFR and back again?

Sure. You file a combined VFR/IFR flight plan. When they see the initial
fix of your IFR route beginning away from the departure area, they know
you're departing VFR (and that you intend to pick-up your IFR clearance
before you reach the initial fix).

Here in the UK this is done all the time. But one isn't supposed to do
it in e.g. France because *any* IFR requires an IFR flight plan, and
an IFR clearance.

The last bit should be OK because one can cancel IFR, AFAIK.

Yes, assuming you can legally fly VFR, you can cancel your IFR flight
plan at any time (unless you're in Class A, of course...)




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

Peter wrote:



In the USA, can one depart VFR and then change to IFR and back again?
Here in the UK this is done all the time. But one isn't supposed to do
it in e.g. France because *any* IFR requires an IFR flight plan, and
an IFR clearance.

The last bit should be OK because one can cancel IFR, AFAIK.

Europe's system is not flexible, we are.

Bob Gardner wrote:
I have heard enough "Oh...are you IFR?" out of Boeing Field that I consider
a little crap necessary at times.

Bob Gardner

I guess that's why usually at Paine Field they tell you "Advise ground
and tower that you're IFR" at the end of your clearence. And that's just
like other posters have suggested - a class D tower which hands you off
to Seattle Center.

At the aiport I fly out of (KPAO) after I readback my clearance to
ground they always tell me to "advise the tower you're IFR". So there's
no question about this issue there. I'm not sure if this has to do with
how busy our airport always is, or how busy the departure airspace is.
I'd guess both. I'll make a not to ask the controller next time I visit
the tower.

Max

Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?

They do when you've requested flight following.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA


Here in Dallas, they never send any VFR aircraft to 'Departure'. To my
knowledge, the term 'Departure' is only used with IFR aircraft. For a VFR
departure requesting 'flight following', they always tell them to contact
'Approach Control'.

Russ

Newps wrote:

But I suspect that it does help, in that it would be the odd IFR pilot
who could depart w/o a squawk.Â*Â*IfÂ*theÂ*towerÂ*clearedÂ*meÂ*forÂ*t/oÂ*w/o
givingÂ*meÂ*a squawk, I'd ask.Â*Â*ThisÂ*forcesÂ*theÂ*particularÂ*operatorÂ*t oÂ*know
thatÂ*it'sÂ*an IFR departure.

No?

Not having a transponder code doesn't mean you aren't IFR.Â*Â*

Of course not.

It'sÂ*simply
a gimmick by the tower to try and prevent an operational error.

I'm not likely to forget I'm IFR, even of the tower operator does (or hasn't
been informed, perhaps). I'm also not likely to take off IFR w/o a squawk.

What tower is apparently avoiding is an operation error, yes. They're doing
so by using my reluctance to depart IFR w/o a squawk. By forcing me to ask
for a squawk if it's not given, they're effectively having me remind the
tower operator that I'm IFR in the case where he or she has forgotten.

At least, that's my understanding of how this "gimmick" is working. It
doesn't make sense?

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:
Newps wrote:


But I suspect that it does help, in that it would be the odd IFR pilot
who could depart w/o a squawk. If the tower cleared me for t/o w/o
giving me a squawk, I'd ask. This forces the particular operator to know
that it's an IFR departure.

No?

Not having a transponder code doesn't mean you aren't IFR.


Of course not.


It's simply
a gimmick by the tower to try and prevent an operational error.


I'm not likely to forget I'm IFR, even of the tower operator does (or hasn't
been informed, perhaps). I'm also not likely to take off IFR w/o a squawk.

Nobody's worried about you forgetting you're IFR, all this is about a
VFR tower launching an IFR aircraft into the system and the pilot is the
only one who knows he's IFR. That's bad.