Jepps airport and VOR names ... how used?

Question A: I'm trying to get fast and accurate at programming routes
(and possible reroutes) into the KLN94 and G1000 navigators our club
planes are equipped with. I was wondering, does ATC usually give you
the VOR 3 letter ID or the full name? If it's the full name and it's
unfamiliar territory, do you just ask them to spell all VOR and fix
names? Or do you write down the full name longhand then try to find
the match on the chart. I fly a lot of local and they seem to say the
full VOR name.

Question B: How do you know what an airport is *called*? If it has an
IAP you can see it's called "Jackson Tower". (Jackson, MI, KJXN) If
you use a gov VFR chart, or Jepps LOW you would only know to call it
"Jackson County Reynolds tower". Lansing Michigan's airport name is
"Capital City", but it's Lansing Tower on the Jepps IAP. Sees this
could add a layer of confusion when the tower is closed and someone
that doesn't know the area is reporting final Capital City. Why do
they have airport names, but not necessarily use them?

.... Aaron

On 02/06/06 07:19, akiley wrote:
Question A: I'm trying to get fast and accurate at programming routes
(and possible reroutes) into the KLN94 and G1000 navigators our club
planes are equipped with. I was wondering, does ATC usually give you
the VOR 3 letter ID or the full name? If it's the full name and it's
unfamiliar territory, do you just ask them to spell all VOR and fix
names? Or do you write down the full name longhand then try to find
the match on the chart. I fly a lot of local and they seem to say the
full VOR name.

When I'm receiving my clearance, I write down what I hear, and follow
along with the en route chart on my lap. If necessary, I'll ask the
controller to provide the fix identifier. I suppose you could even
ask for that up front:

"... ready to copy - and can you please include the fix IDs?"

Also, once you get the clearance, you can ask for some time to digest
it before you read it back:

"... standby by for read back."



Question B: How do you know what an airport is *called*? If it has an
IAP you can see it's called "Jackson Tower". (Jackson, MI, KJXN) If
you use a gov VFR chart, or Jepps LOW you would only know to call it
"Jackson County Reynolds tower". Lansing Michigan's airport name is
"Capital City", but it's Lansing Tower on the Jepps IAP. Sees this
could add a layer of confusion when the tower is closed and someone
that doesn't know the area is reporting final Capital City. Why do
they have airport names, but not necessarily use them?

That's a good question, and one I've wondered as well. There's an
airport near me that is charted as "Yuba County", but is called
"Marysville". When I was flying practice approaches into it (during
training) I called it Yuba County, and the controller just came back
with Marysville, so I started calling it Marysville as well.



... Aaron



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Interesting questions.
Question A: It depends on the controller. In the Northeast, I've found that
the more commonly-used VORs are referred to by name only while others have
the identifier called out on a regular basis--especially if the ID is
nothing like the name. Just ask the controller to give it to you by the
identifier beforehand. They'll probably have no probem with it.

Question B: Like you mentioned, the Jepps have the spoken name on their
charts which is one of their benefits. At least at my home field--where the
spoken name is Republic and the charts are under Farmingdale--I've never
personally heard it cause any confusion (with or without the tower
operational). Most pilots can figure it out quite readily. Call them by
whatever the ATC facility is using (either tower or Approach) and you can't
go wrong. As for the history of WHY, well, that probably varies with each
facility.

Marco


"akiley" wrote in message
oups.com...
Question A: I'm trying to get fast and accurate at programming routes
(and possible reroutes) into the KLN94 and G1000 navigators our club
planes are equipped with. I was wondering, does ATC usually give you
the VOR 3 letter ID or the full name? If it's the full name and it's
unfamiliar territory, do you just ask them to spell all VOR and fix
names? Or do you write down the full name longhand then try to find
the match on the chart. I fly a lot of local and they seem to say the
full VOR name.

Question B: How do you know what an airport is *called*? If it has an
IAP you can see it's called "Jackson Tower". (Jackson, MI, KJXN) If
you use a gov VFR chart, or Jepps LOW you would only know to call it
"Jackson County Reynolds tower". Lansing Michigan's airport name is
"Capital City", but it's Lansing Tower on the Jepps IAP. Sees this
could add a layer of confusion when the tower is closed and someone
that doesn't know the area is reporting final Capital City. Why do
they have airport names, but not necessarily use them?

... Aaron




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I agree it is ambigous. ATC can use either VOR name or 3 letter ID.

Airport names are a mess also. Take "Jeffco" (KBJC). It is listed as
being in Denver in the Approach plates (at least the govt ones). But it
is not in Denver (it is in the Denver area but is actually in
Westminster (I think)). There are many airports like this. Especially
confusing when you aren't prepared for it in advance (like a
diversion).

You think thats a mess, in Alaska, many of the airports have TWO
different id codes or did, they are working to clear that up)...

Such is life.

Mark Hansen wrote:

There's an
airport near me that is charted as "Yuba County", but is called
"Marysville". When I was flying practice approaches into it (during
training) I called it Yuba County, and the controller just came back
with Marysville, so I started calling it Marysville as well.

73J, Beaufort, SC, is listed as "Beaufort County" but invariably referred to by
ATC as "Frogmore".

In a previous article, "Doug" said:
You think thats a mess, in Alaska, many of the airports have TWO
different id codes or did, they are working to clear that up)...

The messy thing for me (doing my navaid.com waypoint generators) is trying
to figure out ICAO ids for Alaska airports when dealing with the FAA data.
In the lower 48, there are hard and fast rules for when you can and when
you can't turn an FAA id into an ICAO id by adding a K prefix. The prefix
in Alaska is two characters, and then the ICAO id is *usually* made up of
that prefix plus two of the three characters in the FAA id, but not
following any sort of rules that I can discern.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
.... industry giant Microsoft Corporation... a company that has become
successful without resorting to software testing...
-- Unknown, rec.humor.funny

Well, I can tell you that when I was up there in Alaska (and the last
time was 4 years ago, so things have changed), the id my GPS used
(which was ICAO, and the id that FSS used were different. And if you
looked in the AFD, there were TWO different ids (NONE with the ICAO
prefix) in the AFD). What a mess!!!!! I am sure they are working it out
(I assume they are migrating to ICAO) but I don't have the lastest.

On 2006-02-06, akiley wrote:
If it's the full name and it's
unfamiliar territory, do you just ask them to spell all VOR and fix
names?

Best to ask them to spell it out. If you're that unfamiliar, it doesn't
hurt to get a double check of the route. I once spent 5 minutes searching
for the "SUNOL.2" arrival which was really the "PANOCHE.2". If I'd quickly
questioned the arrival I couldn't find I would have gotten a correction.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Controllers sometimes don't remember that a fix or facility name has
changed. I live near Bloomington, IL, with a VOR named Bloomington
(BMI). My son lived near Bloomington, IN, and the VOR approach to the
airport nearest his home was based on the VOR at Bloomington, IN,
naturally named Bloomington VOR (BMG if I remember correctly). Shortly
after the Bloomington (IN) VOR was renamed Hoosier VOR (OOM), I was
enroute to see my son when I received an amended clearance "direct to
Bloomington VOR". I asked for clarification, and the controller
repeated the same clearance. Bloomington (IL) (BMI) was behind me, so I
asked why he wanted me to turn around. Then it dawned on me, and I
asked if maybe the last clearance was really for Hoosier VOR. He agreed
that Hoosier VOR would be better.

You can't ever let your guard down.

Hank
Henry A. Spellman
Comanche N5903P

Marco Leon wrote:
Interesting questions.
Question A: It depends on the controller. In the Northeast, I've found that
the more commonly-used VORs are referred to by name only while others have
the identifier called out on a regular basis--especially if the ID is
nothing like the name. Just ask the controller to give it to you by the
identifier beforehand. They'll probably have no probem with it.

Question B: Like you mentioned, the Jepps have the spoken name on their
charts which is one of their benefits. At least at my home field--where the
spoken name is Republic and the charts are under Farmingdale--I've never
personally heard it cause any confusion (with or without the tower
operational). Most pilots can figure it out quite readily. Call them by
whatever the ATC facility is using (either tower or Approach) and you can't
go wrong. As for the history of WHY, well, that probably varies with each
facility.

Marco

"Frogmore" is a nearby town. It's also famous for it's "Frogmore
Stew" - a boil consisiting of shrimp, corn, onions, and sausage. Some
may know it as "Beaufort Stew".

Beaufort - home of Parris Island, Marine Corps Air Station, "The Big
Chill", "The Great Santini", "Forest Gump" and me.

Chris - Mooney N9373M

Dave Butler wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

There's an
airport near me that is charted as "Yuba County", but is called
"Marysville". When I was flying practice approaches into it (during
training) I called it Yuba County, and the controller just came back
with Marysville, so I started calling it Marysville as well.

73J, Beaufort, SC, is listed as "Beaufort County" but invariably
referred to by
ATC as "Frogmore".