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GNS430 on the Airway



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 9th 06, 01:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Peter R." wrote in message
...



Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years?


Who told you that?
  #22  
Old February 9th 06, 02:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway


wrote...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years?


Who told you that?


http://www.faa.gov/asd/gpstrans.pdf

http://avnwww.jccbi.gov/icasc/PDF/frp1999.pdf

http://www.alaska.faa.gov/capstone/d...de%20v1.1H.pdf



  #23  
Old February 9th 06, 02:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway


"Ted" wrote in message
et...

wrote...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years?


Who told you that?


http://www.faa.gov/asd/gpstrans.pdf

http://avnwww.jccbi.gov/icasc/PDF/frp1999.pdf

http://www.alaska.faa.gov/capstone/d...de%20v1.1H.pdf


also see:

http://gps.faa.gov/

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/cgsic/mee...ons/Hanlon.ppt



  #24  
Old February 9th 06, 05:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

"Ted" wrote:


wrote...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years?


Who told you that?


http://www.faa.gov/asd/gpstrans.pdf

http://avnwww.jccbi.gov/icasc/PDF/frp1999.pdf

http://www.alaska.faa.gov/capstone/d...de%20v1.1H.pdf


Don't use outdated FRPs. The FAAs OLD thought of getting rid of all
ground-based navaids in favor of SATNAV was flawed from the beginning.
It was further reduced to outdated after 9/11.

Ron Lee
  #25  
Old February 9th 06, 05:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:

So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight
plan with every intersection and VOR? Is there an article or study somewhere
that includes metrics to back it up? For example, "a non-WAAS GPS-derived
line direct btween two intersection xx miles away will differ from the
airway between those same two intersections by x.x statute miles." How do
the error allowances play into this?



Since unaugmented GPS (not using WAAS) is accurate to 10 meters or so
(plus/minus) and an airway is plus/minus four MILES (or is is two?)
the navigation source (GPS) is not a major error source.

Ron Lee
  #26  
Old February 9th 06, 05:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

On 02/09/06 08:09, Ron Lee wrote:
"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote:

So how far off an airway is an aircraft when they are following a GPS flight
plan with every intersection and VOR? Is there an article or study somewhere
that includes metrics to back it up? For example, "a non-WAAS GPS-derived
line direct btween two intersection xx miles away will differ from the
airway between those same two intersections by x.x statute miles." How do
the error allowances play into this?



Since unaugmented GPS (not using WAAS) is accurate to 10 meters or so
(plus/minus) and an airway is plus/minus four MILES (or is is two?)
the navigation source (GPS) is not a major error source.


An airway is 8 miles wide (4 miles on either side of the centerline).

One of the problems is that GPS accounts for magnetic variations differently
than the VORs do. Also I don't think GPS accounts for the fact that the
VOR radial are not exactly aligned with magnetic north (what is this called?
variance? I can't remember - it's documented in the A/FD).

GPS position errors would be on top of all this.


Ron Lee



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
  #27  
Old February 9th 06, 06:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

Mark Hansen wrote:


One of the problems is that GPS accounts for magnetic variations
differently
than the VORs do. Also I don't think GPS accounts for the fact that the
VOR radial are not exactly aligned with magnetic north (what is this
called?
variance? I can't remember - it's documented in the A/FD).


This would have an effect only if the procedure has you tracking a defined VOR
radial. There might be some such procedures, but I can't think of any at the moment.

All the airway segments (that's what we're talking about, right?) that I know of
have a defined point at each end of the segment. There is one and only one great
circle route between those two points. It's the same great circle whether you
follow it with a GPS or a VOR receiver.

Dave
  #28  
Old February 9th 06, 07:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway


"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
"Ted" wrote:


wrote...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years?

Who told you that?


http://www.faa.gov/asd/gpstrans.pdf

http://avnwww.jccbi.gov/icasc/PDF/frp1999.pdf

http://www.alaska.faa.gov/capstone/d...de%20v1.1H.pdf


Don't use outdated FRPs.


Do you have a newer version?

The FAAs OLD thought of getting rid of all
ground-based navaids in favor of SATNAV was flawed from the beginning.
It was further reduced to outdated after 9/11.


How so?



  #29  
Old February 9th 06, 07:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years


Next few years? Where did you get this timeframe?

See Ted's posts further down the thread.



  #30  
Old February 10th 06, 07:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
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Default GNS430 on the Airway

Ted wrote:
"Ted" wrote in message
et...

wrote...

Matt Barrow wrote:

Hmmm...how are they going to route traffic when all the VOR's are
decommissioned in the next few years?

Who told you that?


http://www.faa.gov/asd/gpstrans.pdf

http://avnwww.jccbi.gov/icasc/PDF/frp1999.pdf

http://www.alaska.faa.gov/capstone/d...de%20v1.1H.pdf



also see:

http://gps.faa.gov/

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/cgsic/mee...ons/Hanlon.ppt




The WAAS implementation in that first PDF (10 years old) is terribly out
of date. WAAS, although supporting LPV, is not performing as well as
they hoped when that was published.

There is still no sole-means en route in sight, except for Alaska, which
is an exception to the usual ICAO requirements.
 




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