What do you think about ercoupe

I am a low time pilot 100 hours who has time on 150's 172 (new and
old) and on a warrior.

A friend (also low time)and myself want to partner on a plane so we
can build time, go on overnight trips without daily minima and just
generally improve our flying skills. One day or aim is a float plane
or flying boat.

In the interim we are starting to save toward the purchase of a plane
2 place or four place. He is 240lb i am 150lb.

I have seen some adds for ercoupe's and they seem to be quite
inexpensive.

i am wondering about what opinions people have about the ercoupe or
other advice on plane to buy.

172 would be likely candidate as it would probably be a comfortable 2
place (in reality for us)

thanks

Great little plane, you'll love it. Be very careful of the repairs
that were completed over the years. Ercoupe owners tend to be some of
the cheapest SOB's on the planet, and too many have had backyard parts
substituted for airplane stuff. You'll probably want one that has a
new center section recently (last 20 years) and make sure the wings
are impeccable on the inside. Some spars are suffering from
intergranular corrosion which probably originated at the manufacturing
company (Can't build nothing to last 55 years any more!) Be very
careful of any and all modifications, regardless of what the owners
tells you. Make sure the logs are good. If you're looking at a 75
hp, measure the length of the prop. make sure it is to spec (I can't
remember how long it needs to be). The CD is a great version and any
coupe with the 100 hp conversion is a blast. The best ones made were
Forneys with the 90 hp engine. When you get into the Alons and
Mooneys, remember that you can't fly with the canopy open, which is
one of the most endearing traits of this little "driver". Rag wings
are better than metal, no pedals are better than pedals. Remember
weight is a very important factor, so even a 5 pound load should be
thought out. Try to keep it as simple as possible, you don't need all
the bells and whistles, same amount of people will look at it
regardless of equipment. Polished is nice, but at PITA. paint adds
about 70 pounds to the airframe!!! Good luck. $10 to 15K should get
you a good one.


On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:54:56 GMT, (ianf) wrote:

I am a low time pilot 100 hours who has time on 150's 172 (new and
old) and on a warrior.

A friend (also low time)and myself want to partner on a plane so we
can build time, go on overnight trips without daily minima and just
generally improve our flying skills. One day or aim is a float plane
or flying boat.

In the interim we are starting to save toward the purchase of a plane
2 place or four place. He is 240lb i am 150lb.

I have seen some adds for ercoupe's and they seem to be quite
inexpensive.

i am wondering about what opinions people have about the ercoupe or
other advice on plane to buy.

172 would be likely candidate as it would probably be a comfortable 2
place (in reality for us)

thanks

ianf wrote:

In the interim we are starting to save toward the purchase of a plane
2 place or four place. He is 240lb i am 150lb.

i am wondering about what opinions people have about the ercoupe or
other advice on plane to buy.

These planes are always popular with the kids at Young Eagles flights. Watch
the load carefully, though. Depending on age and type (several companies made
them) and optional equipment, they will carry 450 to 500 pounds, more or less.
They hold 24 gallons, so, if you and your partner want to fly together, you
will probably want to leave the tanks down a bit.

George Patterson
Brute force has an elegance all its own.

Sorry, but I'll reiterate what I said and will not agree with most of
what this poster states.

On 26 Aug 2003 20:11:09 -0700, Bob Fry wrote:

I have an Alon Aircoupe, just returned from Oshkosh to California.
Great airplane, but for long trips it's impractical for two people.
Though an acquaintance flew his Alon from California to Barrow,
Alaska, then to the Florida Keys with two people. Also to Maine
(separate trip).

Justin Case writes:

You'll probably want one that has a
new center section recently (last 20 years) and make sure the wings
are impeccable on the inside. Some spars are suffering from
intergranular corrosion which probably originated at the manufacturing
company

New or replaced center section is not necessary, but do check for
corrosion. Get one with the recent AD done.

Most of the good ones have has the center section replaced. It's a
good idea to look for that since it'll cost about 10K to have one
replaced.

If you're looking at a 75 hp,

Don't look at one, not with one of you over 200 lbs. Get 85 hp
minimum.

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about because he obviously has
not flown one with a 75 and the proper fan in front. I'm over 200 and
my 75 consistently outran the 85's.


Forneys with the 90 hp engine. When you get into the Alons and
Mooneys, remember that you can't fly with the canopy open, which is
one of the most endearing traits of this little "driver".

This is untrue. The original Ercoupes had an unusual window
arrangement where the two halves slide vertically into the fuselage,
and these can be left open at any speed. Plus some have a center
metal section which serves as a sunscreen. The Alons (Aircoupes) have
a more normal sliding canopy which slides backward. More accessible,
but you can't fly faster than 100 mph with it open. You can open and
close it in flight with just a little struggle.

When you're flying the Ercoupe you're at full throttle. More times
than not, you're over 100 mph. If not, you're aircraft is a doggie.
I don't want any struggle when I'm flying.

Rag wings
are better than metal, no pedals are better than pedals.

Again, not necessarily. This is more individual preference. A
Coupe's rudder are not too effective, so even with pedals you can't
slip it much. Plus, those Coupes that came from the factory without
pedals, then had them added, have an odd trait: You still steer on the
ground by turning the wheel. Confusing as hell I think.

Not at all personal preference. The metal wings add 35 pounds to the
airframe. Remember, weight is your enemy. The whole wing spar AD
started when corrosion was found in the metalized wings and spread to
what it became.

about 70 pounds to the airframe!!! Good luck. $10 to 15K should get
you a good one.

Geez, not in California. The Ercoupes (older models, much more
common) run $15K-$20K for a good one here; add $5K for an Alon or
Mooney version.

Mooneys are too high, you could buy a real one for what they ask.
Everything in CA is too expensive, so the residents expect it. We
just sold a pristine 415C for 11.5K in TX. If you pay more than 15K,
you should expect a show winner.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Alon Aircoupe is the most efficient
non-modern certificated airplane around for its engine (90 hp). With
my cruise prop I get 100 kts cruise, that's not much less than a
beatup C-172. But I can still fly with the canopy open on a hot day
if I want like a Cub with the door open. A blast to fly, but very
safe.

The Alon with the 90 is extremely powerful. On a hot TX day (+90) two
200+ pounders had no problem getting off the ground. Too bad we
couldn't open the canopy in flight.

Justin,

Regarding the Alon, why do you say "Too bad we couldn't open the canopy in
flight." ? The only restriction is that you must not fly over 100 mph. Are
you disagreeing with the POH, or are you just saying that it is difficult to
open once your flying? I own a '65 Alon and I have opened it and closed it
while flying. Granted, it is easier on the ground with two hands, but it's
not a huge task in the air.

Just asking for clarification.

Mitch
N6369V




"Justin Case" wrote in message
news
Sorry, but I'll reiterate what I said and will not agree with most of
what this poster states.

On 26 Aug 2003 20:11:09 -0700, Bob Fry wrote:

I have an Alon Aircoupe, just returned from Oshkosh to California.
Great airplane, but for long trips it's impractical for two people.
Though an acquaintance flew his Alon from California to Barrow,
Alaska, then to the Florida Keys with two people. Also to Maine
(separate trip).

Justin Case writes:

You'll probably want one that has a
new center section recently (last 20 years) and make sure the wings
are impeccable on the inside. Some spars are suffering from
intergranular corrosion which probably originated at the manufacturing
company

New or replaced center section is not necessary, but do check for
corrosion. Get one with the recent AD done.

Most of the good ones have has the center section replaced. It's a
good idea to look for that since it'll cost about 10K to have one
replaced.

If you're looking at a 75 hp,

Don't look at one, not with one of you over 200 lbs. Get 85 hp
minimum.

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about because he obviously has
not flown one with a 75 and the proper fan in front. I'm over 200 and
my 75 consistently outran the 85's.


Forneys with the 90 hp engine. When you get into the Alons and
Mooneys, remember that you can't fly with the canopy open, which is
one of the most endearing traits of this little "driver".

This is untrue. The original Ercoupes had an unusual window
arrangement where the two halves slide vertically into the fuselage,
and these can be left open at any speed. Plus some have a center
metal section which serves as a sunscreen. The Alons (Aircoupes) have
a more normal sliding canopy which slides backward. More accessible,
but you can't fly faster than 100 mph with it open. You can open and
close it in flight with just a little struggle.

When you're flying the Ercoupe you're at full throttle. More times
than not, you're over 100 mph. If not, you're aircraft is a doggie.
I don't want any struggle when I'm flying.

Rag wings
are better than metal, no pedals are better than pedals.

Again, not necessarily. This is more individual preference. A
Coupe's rudder are not too effective, so even with pedals you can't
slip it much. Plus, those Coupes that came from the factory without
pedals, then had them added, have an odd trait: You still steer on the
ground by turning the wheel. Confusing as hell I think.

Not at all personal preference. The metal wings add 35 pounds to the
airframe. Remember, weight is your enemy. The whole wing spar AD
started when corrosion was found in the metalized wings and spread to
what it became.

about 70 pounds to the airframe!!! Good luck. $10 to 15K should get
you a good one.

Geez, not in California. The Ercoupes (older models, much more
common) run $15K-$20K for a good one here; add $5K for an Alon or
Mooney version.

Mooneys are too high, you could buy a real one for what they ask.
Everything in CA is too expensive, so the residents expect it. We
just sold a pristine 415C for 11.5K in TX. If you pay more than 15K,
you should expect a show winner.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Alon Aircoupe is the most efficient
non-modern certificated airplane around for its engine (90 hp). With
my cruise prop I get 100 kts cruise, that's not much less than a
beatup C-172. But I can still fly with the canopy open on a hot day
if I want like a Cub with the door open. A blast to fly, but very
safe.

The Alon with the 90 is extremely powerful. On a hot TX day (+90) two
200+ pounders had no problem getting off the ground. Too bad we
couldn't open the canopy in flight.

Justin Case writes:

The Alon with the 90 is extremely powerful. On a hot TX day (+90) two
200+ pounders had no problem getting off the ground. Too bad we
couldn't open the canopy in flight.

Well, too bad you can't read the POH and realize it's perfectly OK to
open the canopy! I do it all the time with mine. Of course, I'm
careful to keep it below 100 mph.

Bob Fry wrote in message ...

Again, not necessarily. This is more individual preference. A
Coupe's rudder are not too effective, so even with pedals you can't
slip it much. Plus, those Coupes that came from the factory without
pedals, then had them added, have an odd trait: You still steer on the
ground by turning the wheel. Confusing as hell I think.

The one I put a few hours on was a '66 or '67 Alon, one of the last
ones built, with 90 HP. Had factory rudder pedals that steered the
nosewheel on the ground. Had a brake bar above the pedals that
activated both brakes, so no differential braking.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Alon Aircoupe is the most efficient
non-modern certificated airplane around for its engine (90 hp). With
my cruise prop I get 100 kts cruise, that's not much less than a
beatup C-172.

Exactly. It would outperform a Cessna 150 in every way possible
except perhaps for useful load. Took off quicker, climbed much better,
and cruised 10 or 15 kts faster, all on 10 less HP. Very easy to land.
But I found the seats uncomfortable and the noise awesome. No
mufflers. And those rudders were mostly for decoration.
Might be a good airplane but you won't get much respect in the
pilot lounge. Some clubs used to use Ercoupes to drive the pilots out
to their real airplanes :-) There were a lot of nicknames: Burpcup,
Airpoop, and so on.
Dan

I flew one of those, didn't realize it was factory though, what a pain
to give up steering to hit the brake and then no differential. I'd have to
have a hand brake I think. I just assumed that that bar brake was from it's
days without rudder pedals. Kinda nice to be able to steer, and brake at the
same time.

The one I put a few hours on was a '66 or '67 Alon, one of the last
ones built, with 90 HP. Had factory rudder pedals that steered the
nosewheel on the ground. Had a brake bar above the pedals that
activated both brakes, so no differential braking.

I liked the plane, it was a lot of run. I heard ScareCoupe. Goes along
with the TraumaHawk
Wayne

to their real airplanes :-) There were a lot of nicknames: Burpcup,
Airpoop, and so on.
Dan

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Greg,

so does it have the 400 lbs useful load after fuel that the original
poster needs?

Thomas,

I'll have to check my W&B for sure. I don't have the numbers memorized
off hand. I'm 140 lbs and can carry a 200 lb passenger with full fuel no
problem. Baggage is another story. There are some mods which change the
gross weight from 1,230(?) to 1,400 on some models. Mine has the 1,230(?)
limit right now.

-Greg Burkhart

Doing over 100. I guess if you want to be leisurely, you can fly with
it pushed back. Also lots of the guys will fly with it cracked open a
few inches. Can't beat the "no top" from start to finish, though.

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:48:24 -0400, "Mitch Hines"
wrote:

Justin,

Regarding the Alon, why do you say "Too bad we couldn't open the canopy in
flight." ? The only restriction is that you must not fly over 100 mph. Are
you disagreeing with the POH, or are you just saying that it is difficult to
open once your flying? I own a '65 Alon and I have opened it and closed it
while flying. Granted, it is easier on the ground with two hands, but it's
not a huge task in the air.

Just asking for clarification.

Mitch
N6369V




"Justin Case" wrote in message
news
Sorry, but I'll reiterate what I said and will not agree with most of
what this poster states.

On 26 Aug 2003 20:11:09 -0700, Bob Fry wrote:

I have an Alon Aircoupe, just returned from Oshkosh to California.
Great airplane, but for long trips it's impractical for two people.
Though an acquaintance flew his Alon from California to Barrow,
Alaska, then to the Florida Keys with two people. Also to Maine
(separate trip).

Justin Case writes:

You'll probably want one that has a
new center section recently (last 20 years) and make sure the wings
are impeccable on the inside. Some spars are suffering from
intergranular corrosion which probably originated at the manufacturing
company

New or replaced center section is not necessary, but do check for
corrosion. Get one with the recent AD done.

Most of the good ones have has the center section replaced. It's a
good idea to look for that since it'll cost about 10K to have one
replaced.

If you're looking at a 75 hp,

Don't look at one, not with one of you over 200 lbs. Get 85 hp
minimum.

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about because he obviously has
not flown one with a 75 and the proper fan in front. I'm over 200 and
my 75 consistently outran the 85's.


Forneys with the 90 hp engine. When you get into the Alons and
Mooneys, remember that you can't fly with the canopy open, which is
one of the most endearing traits of this little "driver".

This is untrue. The original Ercoupes had an unusual window
arrangement where the two halves slide vertically into the fuselage,
and these can be left open at any speed. Plus some have a center
metal section which serves as a sunscreen. The Alons (Aircoupes) have
a more normal sliding canopy which slides backward. More accessible,
but you can't fly faster than 100 mph with it open. You can open and
close it in flight with just a little struggle.

When you're flying the Ercoupe you're at full throttle. More times
than not, you're over 100 mph. If not, you're aircraft is a doggie.
I don't want any struggle when I'm flying.

Rag wings
are better than metal, no pedals are better than pedals.

Again, not necessarily. This is more individual preference. A
Coupe's rudder are not too effective, so even with pedals you can't
slip it much. Plus, those Coupes that came from the factory without
pedals, then had them added, have an odd trait: You still steer on the
ground by turning the wheel. Confusing as hell I think.

Not at all personal preference. The metal wings add 35 pounds to the
airframe. Remember, weight is your enemy. The whole wing spar AD
started when corrosion was found in the metalized wings and spread to
what it became.

about 70 pounds to the airframe!!! Good luck. $10 to 15K should get
you a good one.

Geez, not in California. The Ercoupes (older models, much more
common) run $15K-$20K for a good one here; add $5K for an Alon or
Mooney version.

Mooneys are too high, you could buy a real one for what they ask.
Everything in CA is too expensive, so the residents expect it. We
just sold a pristine 415C for 11.5K in TX. If you pay more than 15K,
you should expect a show winner.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Alon Aircoupe is the most efficient
non-modern certificated airplane around for its engine (90 hp). With
my cruise prop I get 100 kts cruise, that's not much less than a
beatup C-172. But I can still fly with the canopy open on a hot day
if I want like a Cub with the door open. A blast to fly, but very
safe.

The Alon with the 90 is extremely powerful. On a hot TX day (+90) two
200+ pounders had no problem getting off the ground. Too bad we
couldn't open the canopy in flight.