We Are All Spaniards

Yes, I blame them for these cowardly acts, and no, I do not think they
have
any justification for their barbaric acts against innocents, which is
against even their own religion. But let's be realistic here - anybody
who
doesn't see the Bush administration, with its "faith-based" initiatives
and
connection to the very right wing Church as crossing the line toward
making
the US a Christian country must be fairly blind or strongly believe that
this direction is the Right Thing To Do.

While I am uncomfortable with the religious right wing of the Republican
Party, I'm hard-pressed to list anything concrete Bush has done in their
favor.

I suppose you could list the ban on partial-birth abortion as happening
under his watch, but this procedure is so barbaric that most people --
Democrat or Republican -- shudder at this type of abortion. I see that law
as being outside of partisan politics -- but that's just me, I suppose.

And the Judge who tried to place the Ten Commandments on the front lawn of
the town courthouse (down South somewhere -- I forget) was summarily drummed
out of office...

While it is true that Bush is obviously a devout Christian, which may change
the *perception* of the U.S., I don't see that the country -- or the laws of
the U.S. -- have changed in any pro-Christian way under his watch.

If anything, the country went waaaaay conservative during the Clinton
presidency.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:45:54 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:

Truth hurts, doesn't it, Martin?

with a little brain left on your side you rather haven't had posted that.
well, I guess it is only ignorance. it can be cured.

#m

--
A far-reaching proposal from the FBI (...) would require all broadband
Internet providers, including cable modem and DSL companies, to rewire
their networks to support easy wiretapping by police.
http://news.com.com/2100-1028-5172948.html

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:30:27 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:

What you need to do is remove the fuel from the fire. Americans need to
stop thinking they know what's best for the world.

Yeah..especially when it's the Islamic fundementalists that KNOW what's
right for the world, and are under strict and explicit order to kill
everyone who says otherwise.

So now there are 2 very confronting positions clashing together. Every side
is in the strong believe that only he holds the only truth.

How can it be solved? The stronger survives? War, bloodshed, economical
decrease?

#m

--
A far-reaching proposal from the FBI (...) would require all broadband
Internet providers, including cable modem and DSL companies, to rewire
their networks to support easy wiretapping by police.
http://news.com.com/2100-1028-5172948.html

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:38:43 +0100, "Friedrich Ostertag"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Yes, we all of the free societies must stand together to fight this
threat. But to believe that the threat of terrorism can be overcome by
increasing security and military action more and more will lead to the
destruction of precisely what we want to defend, the free society. Some
people have said that in a way Al Quaida has already won in the sad
sense, that much of the freedom that the US stood for (and freedom is
what these people hate most) in the past has vanished already.

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote:
We are in a religious war. We didn't choose it, but we've got it.


Really? Maybe we should take "separation of church and state"
more seriously here and break that link. Say what you will about
these people attacking us, but they are not stupid and they see the
strong Christian leaning of the US government administration.

We can't break that link no matter what we do, short of becoming a
fundamentalist Islamic republic. I contend that Al Qaeda would not have
changed a thing had Al Gore been elected.


- anybody who doesn't see the Bush administration, with its
"faith-based" initiatives and connection to the very right wing
Church as crossing the line toward making the US a Christian
country must be fairly blind

In fact I do see that, but it's mostly irrelevant to our terrorism
problem.

There are Islamist extremists who see it very much as a religious war.
They twist their religion's desire for "justice" to justify their
acts. But
the way we respond, and the very nature of our government, affects
how Muslims see us and impacts very directly on the extremist's
support structure and thus whether this war winds down or grows.

I agree completely. We face the challenge of making shrewdly calculated
responses against our enemies, lest we hand them cheap propaganda
victories.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Dan, we'll never defeat them all -- anymore than we can wipe out
cockroaches or fire ants.

That's my point. Attempting to wipe them out will be a doomed strategy.

But we can keep 'em out of our homes.

Yes, we have to fight these rotten *******s, but it will take more
brains than brawn to stay on top of them.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

Dan Luke wrote:

We can't break that link no matter what we do, short of becoming a
fundamentalist Islamic republic. I contend that Al Qaeda would not have
changed a thing had Al Gore been elected.

I find it disturbing when the chief executive of our republic proposes a
constitutional amendment based upon his faith. However, Dan's assertion is
correct. The terrorists would be no more pleased with us were we truly
nonsectarian. In fact, I suspect that we'd be considered even more of a
threat to the terrorists were we to actually live up to that ideal.

- Andrew

G.R. Patterson III wrote:



Tom Sixkiller wrote:

Why, pray tell, do we fight crime in general?

We don't, actually. We fight criminals.

There's no expectation that crime will cease.

- Andrew

Seconded.

C J Campbell wrote:

Terrorists are not interested in freedom, and it is ugly of you to pretend
that it is so.

I don't care whether or not terrorists are interested in freedom. They're
still criminals that murder. With means such as these, the ends become
irrelevant.

- Andrew