Looking for pictures of motorglider failures

....And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0

On 12/11/2019 9:37 AM, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-8, BG wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues,
in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss
common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and
WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements.

I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example:
- failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor)
- failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc)
- failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc)
- failed drive belts
- failed electrical connectors
- failed motor controller
- failed electronics
and anything else you might happen to have.

Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description.
Please email to me offline.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed:
http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df
In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing.

DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places.

My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout

BG
Dr Jack's in-flight fire was the scariest incident I have heard of. Does anyone know if he shut off fuel after the start of the fire?

Tom
Haven't there been 3-4 Stemme in-flight fires world wide?

Frank

--
Dan, 5J

BG wrote on 12/9/2019 2:45 PM:
DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places.

Do you recall how much of the ASH 26 E was burned while it was in the air, and how
much was burned after landing? I don't recall Dr. Jack expressing concern about
inflight structural failure at the time, but it's been 11 years, and I might not
be remembering accurately.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Dan Marotta wrote on 12/11/2019 9:02 AM:
...And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0

What is the plan?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

After Rex Mayes and I came up with a nice fire extinguisher system for ASH26E a decade ago, denial of the need for such a system seemed quite popular.
How many similar systems have been installed by owners?
How many manufaturers offer options like this?
Sorry, don't have a photo of the two emitters in the engine compartment.
Jim

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nidqq8s4s...KIQg2dCta?dl=0

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote on 12/11/2019 9:02 AM:
...And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0

What is the plan?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

1. Evacuate
2. Run upwind
3. Take photos

If below bailout altitude, land straight ahead.Â* If I have sufficient
altitude to jump, I'll jump and let the insurance company have it.

As I understand it, the pilot of the pictured glider was on takeoff when
he got the fire warning, flew an abbreviated pattern, landed, and barely
got out.

On 12/11/2019 10:24 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote on 12/11/2019 9:02 AM:
...And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE
FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0

What is the plan?


--
Dan, 5J

Several of the Stemme owners are looking at this product:
https://proteng.com/pictures/

On 12/11/2019 10:27 AM, JS wrote:
After Rex Mayes and I came up with a nice fire extinguisher system for ASH26E a decade ago, denial of the need for such a system seemed quite popular.
How many similar systems have been installed by owners?
How many manufaturers offer options like this?
Sorry, don't have a photo of the two emitters in the engine compartment.
Jim

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nidqq8s4s...KIQg2dCta?dl=0

--
Dan, 5J

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 3:16:32 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Several of the Stemme owners are looking at this product:
https://proteng.com/pictures/

That looks like a good solution for a closed space, but will it have a meaningful effect in an area with air forced through at high volume? Would you have a separate warning so you'd know to close the Stemme vents? Probably wouldn't work in an MG with an open engine bay (doors that don't close)?

On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 11:11:01 AM UTC-8, Dan Daly wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote on 12/11/2019 9:02 AM:
...And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0

What is the plan?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

1. Evacuate
2. Run upwind
3. Take photos

Dan you need to get with the times. 1) Take selfie; 2) Evacuate; 3) Take selfie; 4) Run upwind while taking self video; 5) take videos, selfies, post to social media...then check for survivors, contact appropriate arthurites.

Social media?Â* What's that?

On 12/11/2019 4:13 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 11:11:01 AM UTC-8, Dan Daly wrote:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2019 at 12:24:13 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote on 12/11/2019 9:02 AM:
...And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0
What is the plan?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
1. Evacuate
2. Run upwind
3. Take photos
Dan you need to get with the times. 1) Take selfie; 2) Evacuate; 3) Take selfie; 4) Run upwind while taking self video; 5) take videos, selfies, post to social media...then check for survivors, contact appropriate arthurites.

--
Dan, 5J