Tesla Model 3 and a glider

On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 11:49:26 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
Tom, your comparison between hybrid and regular gas car is completely off..
I am on my second Lexus RX hybrid SUV. Cost few thousand more but I probably recoup it in couple of years.
Most of us glider pilots drive far more than 8000 miles per year. More like 20K miles per year for me. And at least anywhere in the west, cost of gas is $3-$4 on average. And you don’t need to use premium as they said. I am getting close to 5MPG more on average (26MPG overall average city+Hwy with lots of towing) And the maintenance cost is actually less as the brakes need replacement every 100-150K miles thanks to the regenerative braking. And the hybrid battery last longer then the car probably. My 2007 RX400 has over 250K, and never needed more than the scheduled maintenance. Never broke down. I only needed to replace the 12v battery few times. Best car I ever owned and towed gliders with. I hope my new RX450 will serve me as well.
My wife has a tesla model 3 and we both love it. But I can’t imagine hooking my glider trailer to it.

Ramy

Ramy,

My analysis was based on Toyota's published numbers for the RAV4 which are government approved. The mileage and gas price is a national average - look it up. I am a glider pilot and I drive about 6,500 miles per year. If I use your mileage and CA prices the payback period drops to between 2.5 and 12 years, longer if you figure the time-value of money. A hybrid clearly makes more sense if you live in CA and do (a lot of) mostly city driving, but most of us don't. And I haven't had to do a brake job on any of my vehicles in many years.

Tom

Very informative, thanks!

On 12/17/2019 1:19 PM, Scott Manley wrote:
Folks who don't drive electric vehicles often equate charging with putting fuel into a tank. Fill'er up. The reality is, when traveling I only charge to a capacity that allows me to reach the next planned charge location with a 20% reserve. If the next charge stop only requires a 60% charge (40% for travel + 20% reserve), I only charge until the battery reaches 60% (about 20 minutes at a Tesla Supercharger); then I hit the road. I rarely charge to 100%. For openers, the batteries don't like being fully charged, and secondarily charging is like pouring water into a bucket. When the bucket is empty, you can pour as fast as you like, but as the bucket approaches full, you need to slow down. So I can charge the Model X from 20% to 80% in the same time it takes to charge from 80% to 100%. To reduce time charging, the tactic is to run the battery down to as low a charge as is comfortable and then charge up only as needed to reach the next charging location. For what it is worth, having to stop for 1/2 hr to charge every 2-3 hours and driving in the left lane with the professional truck drivers and slight lower speeds makes for much more relaxed travel. Back to the topic of towing, the extra mass of the Model X (5500 lb) makes it a very stable towing platform. With the exceptions of a 35% reduction in range and not being able to see much out the back window, I barely noticed I was pulling a 30 foot trailer. The ample torque also allows for worry free and nearly instantaneous passing ability. A fellow Model X owner once told me, and after having driven mine for 3 years I must agree, none of the things you think would be a problem with an electric vehicle (especially a Tesla) are actually problems.

--
Dan, 5J

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:19:41 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yes, and last time (and hopefully THE last time) I was in California,
the speed limit while towing a trailer was 55 mph.

On 12/16/2019 6:00 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Martin Gregorie wrote on 12/16/2019 4:23 PM:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 15:22:44 -0800, Eric Greenwell wrote:

Charlie Quebec wrote on 12/16/2019 2:20 PM:
Ah, Americans and their overcompensation trucks.sad.

Why is the same trailer stable in Europe, but not in America?

Speed possibly?

In the UK towing with a car at more than 60mph makes you eligible for a
speeding ticket. I haven't towed in Europe, but I'd expect a towing
speed
limit below the standard motorway limit there too.

It's a big country, and we do have some impatient pilots, so that's
certainly some of it. Some western states have 80 mph speed limits on
the interstate highways.


--
Dan, 5J

It still is, but if you actually drive 55 you will be passed by A LOT of vehicles towing trailers (meaning most).

Tom

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 6:43:59 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:19:41 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yes, and last time (and hopefully THE last time) I was in California,
the speed limit while towing a trailer was 55 mph.

It still is, but if you actually drive 55 you will be passed by A LOT of vehicles towing trailers (meaning most).

Tom

And when I am towing a glider through California, I am happy to let someone else get the Certificate of Rapid Progress by driving over 55 MPH while I cruise along at 55 MPH.

Steve Leonard

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 5:13:57 PM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 6:43:59 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:19:41 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Yes, and last time (and hopefully THE last time) I was in California,
the speed limit while towing a trailer was 55 mph.

It still is, but if you actually drive 55 you will be passed by A LOT of vehicles towing trailers (meaning most).

Tom

And when I am towing a glider through California, I am happy to let someone else get the Certificate of Rapid Progress by driving over 55 MPH while I cruise along at 55 MPH.

Steve Leonard

My wife got a warning from a CA trooper for NOT ALLOWING sufficient space between her and the vehicle in front for speeding trucks to pass her on a 2-lane highway!

Tom

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:42:30 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:

My wife got a warning from a CA trooper for NOT ALLOWING sufficient space between her and the vehicle in front for speeding trucks to pass her on a 2-lane highway!

Tom

Always amazing when you get in trouble for accidentally keeping someone else from breaking the law, isn't it?

Steve Leonard

On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 9:06:14 PM UTC-7, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:42:30 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:

My wife got a warning from a CA trooper for NOT ALLOWING sufficient space between her and the vehicle in front for speeding trucks to pass her on a 2-lane highway!

Tom

Always amazing when you get in trouble for accidentally keeping someone else from breaking the law, isn't it?

Steve Leonard

Gotta love that California mind-set where the criminal has more rights than the victim.

John Foster wrote on 12/18/2019 4:41 PM:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 9:06:14 PM UTC-7, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:42:30 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:

My wife got a warning from a CA trooper for NOT ALLOWING sufficient space between her and the vehicle in front for speeding trucks to pass her on a 2-lane highway!

Tom

Always amazing when you get in trouble for accidentally keeping someone else from breaking the law, isn't it?

Steve Leonard

Gotta love that California mind-set where the criminal has more rights than the victim.

I'm with the trooper, who sounds generous in giving only a warning (mercy for an
out of state driver?). I've often been forced to drive below the speed limit for
many miles on two lane roads by vehicles that do not pass the lead vehicle, but
follow too closely to safely pass them. It's a difficult situation when I'm
driving a car, very difficult when driving the motorhome, and generally impossible
when I'm towing the glider trailer with my motorhome. If you aren't going to pass,
please, please leave space for others to do so.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 4:58:16 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
John Foster wrote on 12/18/2019 4:41 PM:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 9:06:14 PM UTC-7, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:42:30 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:

My wife got a warning from a CA trooper for NOT ALLOWING sufficient space between her and the vehicle in front for speeding trucks to pass her on a 2-lane highway!

Tom

Always amazing when you get in trouble for accidentally keeping someone else from breaking the law, isn't it?

Steve Leonard

Gotta love that California mind-set where the criminal has more rights than the victim.

I'm with the trooper, who sounds generous in giving only a warning (mercy for an
out of state driver?). I've often been forced to drive below the speed limit for
many miles on two lane roads by vehicles that do not pass the lead vehicle, but
follow too closely to safely pass them. It's a difficult situation when I'm
driving a car, very difficult when driving the motorhome, and generally impossible
when I'm towing the glider trailer with my motorhome. If you aren't going to pass,
please, please leave space for others to do so.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

You didn't read my comment very well - my wife WAS driving the speed limit: any trucks wanting to pass would have been SPEEDING. They wanted her to leave TWO spaces for semi's to pull in.

Tom

2G wrote on 12/18/2019 5:19 PM:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 4:58:16 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
John Foster wrote on 12/18/2019 4:41 PM:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 9:06:14 PM UTC-7, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Tuesday, December 17, 2019 at 7:42:30 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:

My wife got a warning from a CA trooper for NOT ALLOWING sufficient space between her and the vehicle in front for speeding trucks to pass her on a 2-lane highway!

Tom

Always amazing when you get in trouble for accidentally keeping someone else from breaking the law, isn't it?

Steve Leonard

Gotta love that California mind-set where the criminal has more rights than the victim.

I'm with the trooper, who sounds generous in giving only a warning (mercy for an
out of state driver?). I've often been forced to drive below the speed limit for
many miles on two lane roads by vehicles that do not pass the lead vehicle, but
follow too closely to safely pass them. It's a difficult situation when I'm
driving a car, very difficult when driving the motorhome, and generally impossible
when I'm towing the glider trailer with my motorhome. If you aren't going to pass,
please, please leave space for others to do so.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

You didn't read my comment very well - my wife WAS driving the speed limit: any trucks wanting to pass would have been SPEEDING. They wanted her to leave TWO spaces for semi's to pull in.

Ah, you didn't say semi's. I thought you meant big trucks without trailers. I
still admire and encourage his concern about people that follow closely, even if
he mishandled that situation. It's rare that people get reprimanded for following
too closely, even though it can trigger dangerous driving from other people trying
to pass.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1