Slingsby T-21

Tony Verhulst wrote:
AAGF wrote:

.....I solo'ed in a T21b back in the 70's at Portmoak in Scotland -
they were a good (unstallable, unspinnable) trainer in their time.

I WANT trainers to be stallable/spinable. A student will advance to
gliders that can (and will) and I want them to know how to deal with it.
You understand that this is a religious war :-).

Tony V.

Ok Tony - religious war it will be! :*)

Seriously, our T21 would simply mush as speed decreased. Get it high
enough, apply some speed and pull up - cross controls and it would fall
off to side and NOT spin! I was spin-trained in a K13, a Capstan
(T53?)and a Bocian. I enjoyed spins.

Andy

..our T21 would simply mush as speed decreased. Get it high
enough, apply some speed and pull up - cross controls and it would fall
off to side and NOT spin! I was spin-trained in a K13, a Capstan
(T53?)and a Bocian. I enjoyed spins.

This is good, I think. If a club has the luxury, maybe some docile
"unspinnable" trainers for the first few solo flights and then some
others for stall/spin training. If I could only have one trainer, I
would want one that will spin. I spin every student before they solo.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"
PS. spins ARE fun.

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
. ..

..our T21 would simply mush as speed decreased. Get it high enough, apply
some speed and pull up - cross controls and it would fall off to side and
NOT spin! I was spin-trained in a K13, a Capstan (T53?)and a Bocian. I
enjoyed spins.

This is good, I think. If a club has the luxury, maybe some docile
"unspinnable" trainers for the first few solo flights and then some others
for stall/spin training. If I could only have one trainer, I would want
one that will spin. I spin every student before they solo.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"
PS. spins ARE fun.


This is an endlessly debatable subject.

"Primacy of Learning" is a tricky thing. No matter how hard an instructor
works at it, the student will learn how his primary trainer behaves.
Later, in a real emergency when panic sets in, he will expect whatever
glider he is flying to behave as his first glider experiences in a spin
resistant trainer taught him it would. That may be a bad thing. Later spin
training may not be enough to overcome unsafe techniques learned in a highly
spin resistant primary trainer. I think it's fair to say that at least some
spin accidents in high performance gliders are due to this.

Of course, there's another side. Spinnable trainers require that students
be trained to a higher standard before solo - which is mostly a good thing.
However, some slow learning students will give up before learning the skills
to safely solo a spinnable trainer. Maybe it's better to lose them as they
walk away from primary training than later when they spin in a high
performance glider.

I vote for spinnable primary trainers that more nearly teach the behaviors
that the student will see in gliders he will fly later.

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
. ..

I vote for spinnable primary trainers that more nearly teach the behaviors
that the student will see in gliders he will fly later.

Yes, primacy of learning is important, but what we want to avoid at all
costs is dead (or even slightly injured) students. "Spinnable" need not mean
"spin prone".

Vaughn

At 22:06 27 February 2007, Aagf wrote:
Nyal Williams wrote:
Does anyone in the US have/fly one of these gliders?

Probably - I solo'ed in a T21b back in the 70's at
Portmoak in Scotland
- they were a good (unstallable, unspinnable) trainer
in their time.

I wonder if that was the same one that's there now?
But unspinnable? I'm not so sure about that. That
does apply to the K21s with most crews in though, given
most of us are towards the upper end of the weight
limit.