Soaring not compatible with modern society?

Time is the usually the issue. My son stopped playing soccer due to the time commitment. The ratio of play to windshield time was not favorable. Best guess is traveling to a soaring site or soccer activity is pretty much the same. Often we'd travel 5 hours round trip for a 69 minute game where the kid plays half. At least with Soaring you can travel 5 hours round trip and take a few tows to balance the travel to play ratio a bit.

If a kid or anyone travels more then 2 hours round trip to fly for 30 minutes my guess is it gets of real fast. At least they play soccer in the rain, winds we wouldn't fly, etc which can help with scheduling. If a pilot has only saturday to fly and the WC is not good or the op doesn't run the pilot is unable to get his fix. Sometimes they can trade days with family but if not they lose out. Frustration can set in and many claim the effort to reward ratio is not worth it.

Time and convenience are most often the controlling factors for participation in recreational activities. Circling back to Gregg's original question about modern society I don't think risk aversion in modern society is as big a deterrent to soaring participation as finding a solution to the time/convenience conundrum. The advent of little motors does address the time needed and inconvenience of a landout hence the rise in popularity.

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 7:14:10 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Time is the usually the issue. My son stopped playing soccer due to the time commitment. The ratio of play to windshield time was not favorable. Best guess is traveling to a soaring site or soccer activity is pretty much the same. Often we'd travel 5 hours round trip for a 69 minute game where the kid plays half. At least with Soaring you can travel 5 hours round trip and take a few tows to balance the travel to play ratio a bit.

If a kid or anyone travels more then 2 hours round trip to fly for 30 minutes my guess is it gets of real fast. At least they play soccer in the rain, winds we wouldn't fly, etc which can help with scheduling. If a pilot has only saturday to fly and the WC is not good or the op doesn't run the pilot is unable to get his fix. Sometimes they can trade days with family but if not they lose out. Frustration can set in and many claim the effort to reward ratio is not worth it.

Time and convenience are most often the controlling factors for participation in recreational activities. Circling back to Gregg's original question about modern society I don't think risk aversion in modern society is as big a deterrent to soaring participation as finding a solution to the time/convenience conundrum. The advent of little motors does address the time needed and inconvenience of a landout hence the rise in popularity.

I agree with Kevin. Young people depend on parents(mostly) for transportation and most of our sites take a good bit of time to get to. It is a dedicated parent that will regularly sacrifice a day for the youngster to fly. Throw in a little brother or sister that has a soccer game on fly day and it gets harder. We have full scholarships for serious young people of limited means. They have their own 1-26 after solo, and a Libelle after private. Tows are at cost to the club. We have instructor committed to the junior program. With all of that we still have the issue of time and competing activities to contend with.
FWIW
UH

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:56:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

- seems to me that the vast majority of people these days - even youngsters - like WATCHING (via electronic screens) other people engage in those extreme sports. But they don't PARTICIPATE in anything like that themselves, due to risk aversion (their own, or their parents or spouses), and lack of time (but there's somehow time to spend hours online every day).

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 12:58:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:56:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I believe prime opinion of this thread is misdirected.

If you think risk avoidance is "The Barrier" - then you do not watch much TV - Old fashion style sports have been replaced by X Game type sports - kids throw themselves off mountains and ramps on pretty much anything with wheels or is slippery. Watch today's winter Olympics and tell me how kids are becoming less risk takers.

- seems to me that the vast majority of people these days - even youngsters - like WATCHING (via electronic screens) other people engage in those extreme sports. But they don't PARTICIPATE in anything like that themselves, due to risk aversion (their own, or their parents or spouses), and lack of time (but there's somehow time to spend hours online every day).

This is due to a very high reward to commitment ratio. Modest to small reward for almost no commitment.
UH

What's surprising to me is not that soaring is declining, but that there are still relatively so many of us involved.

When I was 14, my father was already driving an hour each way to/from Richmond, IN every Saturday anyway to fly (Sundays were for church). The 2nd Saturday each month was his instructor duty day so that's when I went with him.. I had transportation, cheap flights (no rental or instruction fee, $2.50/2000' tow), cheap club dues, a share in a 1-26 waiting for solo, an enormous amount of support from my aviation/soaring-addicted father, and the heady-to-a-teenage-boy thrill of piloting an aircraft.

Flying gliders was a no-brainer!

Today I have my own glider, few family commitments, enough cash to fly whenever I want, a shorter drive to Blairstown, NJ, and several guys who have provided tremendous support over the years (thanks, P3 and UH). And STILL there are days when it's just too much work to go flying: because the weather might not be good, or I need to be back that night for a social commitment, or I flew in really late the night before from a business trip, or it's hot and humid and I don't relish rigging my ASW 24, or my car/house are about to fail because of deferred maintenance, or whatever.

Soaring's upsides are almost limitless. But they can be elusive--and accompanied by a lot of frustration. Add to it that soaring--while safe--is doubtless the riskiest thing most of us do and I understand why it isn't more popular.

Yes, it's expensive. But so are a lot of other things that promise quicker, less uncertain rewards; are more family friendly; are less weather-dependent; are more schedulable in advance and/or require less time commitment; and are just less work to pursue.

Chip Bearden

I think the critical word in the subject line starting this thread is "Modern"

I can say for sure that a majority of youth sports and activities are having difficulty in these "Modern" times.

The competition for kids attention is beyond anything that has ever happened in history - especially in this Modern internet/global new world.

Adults had a similar issues when kids stopped helping on the farm to play games - adults were not happy.... then they started watching TV... then kids became focused on protesting and drugs... then ...

I do not think the debate is about adolescence attention span or not taking risks - good marketing may help but I think the focus has to be how to best hold the kids we have already attracted. I think it is our attrition rate that needs some ideas/energy/thought.

As everyone in business knows - getting a new customer is extremely hard, loosing a customer is really easy - holding a existing customer is what makes for success.

The new wave of young pilots I saw last year at Elmira & still going this year..... now that's a seed that need to get watered and cared for - and that is not easy or simple.

WH

Sheesh.....quite a few great replies.....no good way (for me) to copy all good links........

I will agree with some on "time being an issue", throw in "outside influence".

Per "the real UncleHank" and others, I know of at least one junior club member, in my club, that received a one year scholarship. Basically, you show up, dues and flying are paid for. This to a kidlet that did first glider flight at 6.5 weeks (yesssssss......weeks....not years....) old since his father was a CFIG at the time.
Had older generation family for training and gliders to fly.

In general, no family killing the desire to fly....gliders or otherwise. At least 2 family members that were current CFIG's.

Time became an issue.
Other endeavors ate time.
Eventually, one student could drive himself all of maybe 40miles from home to Gliderport.
What more do you need to do?
Basically free flying, multiple peeps to get younger person from home to gliders and back, we stop short of pressure to fly as well as wiping their butt when they poop.
Yes, I wiped their butt of poop when they were really young.

I have zero clue on a good answer, I can only state what I have gone through or supported over 4 or so decades.

A small handfull in this thread know EXACTLY what I am posting and know the history.
Wish I or others had the majic bullet to raise membership in the US SSA......

You guys are missing one of several elephants in the cockpit...

Most Americans think that small power planes are 'extremely dangerous', and whenever it slips out that I fly gliders, casual acquaintances think that I'm 'totally nuts'. The people that already know me well before they find out about my piloting are usually surprised because... 'But, you seem so normal!'

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 4:14:10 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Time is the usually the issue. My son stopped playing soccer due to the time commitment. The ratio of play to windshield time was not favorable. Best guess is traveling to a soaring site or soccer activity is pretty much the same. Often we'd travel 5 hours round trip for a 69 minute game where the kid plays half. At least with Soaring you can travel 5 hours round trip and take a few tows to balance the travel to play ratio a bit.

If a kid or anyone travels more then 2 hours round trip to fly for 30 minutes my guess is it gets of real fast. At least they play soccer in the rain, winds we wouldn't fly, etc which can help with scheduling. If a pilot has only saturday to fly and the WC is not good or the op doesn't run the pilot is unable to get his fix. Sometimes they can trade days with family but if not they lose out. Frustration can set in and many claim the effort to reward ratio is not worth it.

Time and convenience are most often the controlling factors for participation in recreational activities. Circling back to Gregg's original question about modern society I don't think risk aversion in modern society is as big a deterrent to soaring participation as finding a solution to the time/convenience conundrum. The advent of little motors does address the time needed and inconvenience of a landout hence the rise in popularity.

The time issue gets down to whether or not you have a local glider club. If you don't, it is possible to start one. I know about this because I did it.. Kids that get into soccer don't start by making long trips - they join a local team and that progresses to regional events. The same can be said of soaring.

Also, weather forecasting, especially soaring forecasts, have become very sophisticated. You shouldn't have to make the trip only to have it cancelled because of weather.

I think many people are deterred from soaring because the process seems so daunting; time and expense are just easy excuses. Having a mentor could really help in this area.

Tom

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 4:05:06 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
You guys are missing one of several elephants in the cockpit...

Most Americans think that small power planes are 'extremely dangerous', and whenever it slips out that I fly gliders, casual acquaintances think that I'm 'totally nuts'. The people that already know me well before they find out about my piloting are usually surprised because... 'But, you seem so normal!'

Another elephant.

"The average American borrower with a bachelor’s degree leaves campus with $28,400 in debt."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/11/u...av=bottom-well