History Channel Dogfights - Kamikazes (Season 2 Premiere)

On Jul 17, 2:58?am, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message

ps.com...





On Jul 16, 4:28?pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:
Really well done.... worth checking out. From the look at the battle
of the USS Laffey (And US air cover of the day, tactics, the ship
herself, etc.) to the stuff on the Okha program to the look at a
German ramming squadron in the last days of the war in Europe, really
well done stuff.

The only thing that I take issue with is that they limit themselves to
incidents where they can interview the particpants. When they did the
segment on Jay Zeamer, they used an audio interview done sometime in
the past. But they dredged up the co-pilot. It would seem to
preclude them from doing segments say, on Bob Johnson, Richard Bong,
Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader, and on and on and on......

But the show generally has been very good.

Walt

i don't like how they can mislead with facts. they'll say how many RPM the
guns can fire but then never say how much ammo the plane carried.
stuff like that. now with CGI they are getting away from the 'films is
films' but recently a military channel show on the B-17 at various times
showed B-24s, B-25s while extolling the fortress and then while talking
about the tail-gun of the 17 had a close up of a lancaster 4-gun rear
turret.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Film researchers are always challenged by that. Saw some HC show the
other day that changed out B-17's and B-29's over and over.

Walt

On Jul 17, 4:42?am, Gordon wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:58 pm, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:





"Walt" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jul 16, 4:28?pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:
Really well done.... worth checking out. From the look at the battle
of the USS Laffey (And US air cover of the day, tactics, the ship
herself, etc.) to the stuff on the Okha program to the look at a
German ramming squadron in the last days of the war in Europe, really
well done stuff.

The only thing that I take issue with is that they limit themselves to
incidents where they can interview the particpants. When they did the
segment on Jay Zeamer, they used an audio interview done sometime in
the past. But they dredged up the co-pilot. It would seem to
preclude them from doing segments say, on Bob Johnson, Richard Bong,
Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader, and on and on and on......

But the show generally has been very good.

Walt

i don't like how they can mislead with facts. they'll say how many RPM the
guns can fire but then never say how much ammo the plane carried.
stuff like that. now with CGI they are getting away from the 'films is
films' but recently a military channel show on the B-17 at various times
showed B-24s, B-25s while extolling the fortress and then while talking
about the tail-gun of the 17 had a close up of a lancaster 4-gun rear
turret.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm surprised that, while talking about how much punishment the B-17
could take, they didn't show that guy crashing against the round-down
on the carrier.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


A B-17?

Walt

In article . com,
Walt wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:08?pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"David E. Powell" wrote in
messagenews:1184617727.343322.110040@o61g2000hsh. googlegroups.com...

Really well done.... worth checking out. From the look at the battle
of the USS Laffey (And US air cover of the day, tactics, the ship
herself, etc.) to the stuff on the Okha program to the look at a
German ramming squadron in the last days of the war in Europe, really
well done stuff.

I was stunned the Laffey took all those hits and kept floating.
What was it, four kamikazi and three bomb hits?
And I didn't know they already had radar guided 5 inch
guns'

Seems like Hornet had radar guided guns in 1942.

From memory (not got "Radar at Sea" to hand) the first ship with radar
direction for AA fire was one of the RN 'C' class conversions to an AA
cruiser, some time in autumn 1940. By 1941 the sets were going into
Sloops.

--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

Walt wrote:
On Jul 17, 4:42?am, Gordon wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:58 pm, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:

...but recently a military channel show on the B-17 at various times
showed B-24s, B-25s while extolling the fortress and then while talking
about the tail-gun of the 17 had a close up of a lancaster 4-gun rear
turret.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm surprised that, while talking about how much punishment the B-17
could take, they didn't show that guy crashing against the round-down
on the carrier.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


A B-17?

Walt


That's his point. The history channel is run by people who don't give
an iota about accuracy. The voice-over will be about one thing, and the
visual will be whatever they could find on file. It would be no stretch
at all for them to talk about a B-17 while showing a picture of a
fighter crashing on a flight deck. (A very impressive crash it was, too.)

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On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:08:05 -0400, "Jonathan"
wrote:

And I didn't know they already had radar guided 5 inch
guns

I don't quite see how guns could even be guided: maybe aimed with the
aid of a director that used radar. They did have fire control radars
for five inch guns during WWII. Radar was just coming into use in the
late thirtys but progress was rapid.

Casady

Richard Casady wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:08:05 -0400, "Jonathan"
wrote:

And I didn't know they already had radar guided 5 inch
guns

I don't quite see how guns could even be guided: maybe aimed with the
aid of a director that used radar. They did have fire control radars
for five inch guns during WWII. Radar was just coming into use in the
late thirtys but progress was rapid.


I suspect that they were referring to two things in their rather
misguided description:

1. Radar fire control for aiming the 5" guns
2. Radar-based proximity fuses in the 5" shells

--
Nik Simpson

On Jul 16, 5:49 pm, Walt wrote:
On Jul 16, 4:28?pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:

Really well done.... worth checking out. From the look at the battle
of the USS Laffey (And US air cover of the day, tactics, the ship
herself, etc.) to the stuff on the Okha program to the look at a
German ramming squadron in the last days of the war in Europe, really
well done stuff.

The only thing that I take issue with is that they limit themselves to
incidents where they can interview the particpants. When they did the
segment on Jay Zeamer, they used an audio interview done sometime in
the past. But they dredged up the co-pilot. It would seem to
preclude them from doing segments say, on Bob Johnson, Richard Bong,
Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader, and on and on and on......

I agree. The two guys at Pearl Harbor who got up in P-40s also come to
mind. Or the WW-One bomber raids/defenses...

But the show generally has been very good.

I agree again, Walt...

Walt

David

In article om,
"David E. Powell" wrote:

On Jul 16, 5:49 pm, Walt wrote:
On Jul 16, 4:28?pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:

Really well done.... worth checking out. From the look at the battle
of the USS Laffey (And US air cover of the day, tactics, the ship
herself, etc.) to the stuff on the Okha program to the look at a
German ramming squadron in the last days of the war in Europe, really
well done stuff.

The only thing that I take issue with is that they limit themselves to
incidents where they can interview the particpants. When they did the
segment on Jay Zeamer, they used an audio interview done sometime in
the past. But they dredged up the co-pilot. It would seem to
preclude them from doing segments say, on Bob Johnson, Richard Bong,
Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader, and on and on and on......

I agree. The two guys at Pearl Harbor who got up in P-40s also come to
mind.

Kenneth Welch and George Taylor.

Too bad they didn't interview Phillip Rasmussen before he passed away in
2005, who managed to get in the air with a P-36 and account for one
Zero. He was in something of a hurry, still wearing his pajamas at the
time.

But the show generally has been very good.

I agree again, Walt...

Walt

David

On Jul 17, 2:37 pm, "Mike Piacente" wrote:
Yeah, I saw the same show on the Military Channel on the B-17.

Advice to everyone: DON'T take any of these shows on weapons or battles as
fact. History Channel ran a series called 'Hell's Battlefields' and one
episode I saw was on the Battle of Kursk and it was loaded with errors.
Since it was on about 3 years ago, I've forgotten most of the errors but two
I still remember: while talking about the T-34/76, the film was showing the
T-34/85 which didn't become operational until about 9-10 months AFTER Kursk;
and the narration said Hitler called off the Zitadelle because the Allies
had invaded Sicily on July 10, 1944. NOTICE the date -- ONE YEAR and one
day AFTER the actual invasion. I sent the History Channel an e-mail and
pointed out all the errors and, surprisingly, the show's producer called me.
I told him about the T-34 error and he said "well, most people wouldn't
notice things like that," so I said "If you ran a program about automobiles
and your narration was talking about Cadillacs and the film showed Pintos,
would that be OK?" He said 'No.' Then I told him about the invasion of
Sicily date being off by a year and a day and he wanted to know how I could
possibly know that date. I told him I've been a military historian for 40
years and read him excerpts from three books about the invasion date and
gave him the titles, authors, and publication dates and asked if he'd like
more sources. He declined and said that particular error would be fixed. I
watched the show again the next two times it was on and the error was still
in there.

The media doesn't care about accuracy, they're there to entertain.

"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message

...



"Walt" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 16, 4:28?pm, "David E. Powell"
wrote:
Really well done.... worth checking out. From the look at the battle
of the USS Laffey (And US air cover of the day, tactics, the ship
herself, etc.) to the stuff on the Okha program to the look at a
German ramming squadron in the last days of the war in Europe, really
well done stuff.

The only thing that I take issue with is that they limit themselves to
incidents where they can interview the particpants. When they did the
segment on Jay Zeamer, they used an audio interview done sometime in
the past. But they dredged up the co-pilot. It would seem to
preclude them from doing segments say, on Bob Johnson, Richard Bong,
Adolf Galland, Douglas Bader, and on and on and on......

But the show generally has been very good.

Walt

i don't like how they can mislead with facts. they'll say how many RPM the
guns can fire but then never say how much ammo the plane carried.
stuff like that. now with CGI they are getting away from the 'films is
films' but recently a military channel show on the B-17 at various times
showed B-24s, B-25s while extolling the fortress and then while talking
about the tail-gun of the 17 had a close up of a lancaster 4-gun rear
turret.

On a recent BBC/Discovery channel show I did some flying on, they
added the sound a Cessna 152 starting up, to the footage of a spinning
turboprop

Ron

"William Hanson" wrote in message
...
Walt wrote:
On Jul 17, 4:42?am, Gordon wrote:
On Jul 16, 11:58 pm, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:

...but recently a military channel show on the B-17 at various times
showed B-24s, B-25s while extolling the fortress and then while
talking
about the tail-gun of the 17 had a close up of a lancaster 4-gun rear
turret.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm surprised that, while talking about how much punishment the B-17
could take, they didn't show that guy crashing against the round-down
on the carrier.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


A B-17?

Walt


That's his point. The history channel is run by people who don't give
an iota about accuracy. The voice-over will be about one thing, and the
visual will be whatever they could find on file. It would be no stretch
at all for them to talk about a B-17 while showing a picture of a
fighter crashing on a flight deck. (A very impressive crash it was, too.)




they always show germans advancing across the russian steppes in high
summer while talking about the ardennes.