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Logging approaches



 
 
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  #51  
Old February 4th 04, 03:10 AM
Ron Natalie
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"
I never said any such thing. Prove your allegations.


You posted your ignorance to the "FAA form 337" thread at
rec.aviation.homebuilt.

Did you cancel you post, so you could lie now, Ron?


I didn't cancel any post. What I said, and it is still true, that 337's do not apply
to homebuilts (or any other experimental). It is you who have a mistaken view
of the rules. Part 43 does NOT apply to experimentals. It says this explicitly
in 43.1 (b), but you seem to not be able to understand that.

  #52  
Old February 4th 04, 04:11 AM
Travis Marlatte
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How many of you log specific minutes of a flight as instrument time when you
are flying in and out of clouds? (I count it all as instrument time)

If you settle into severe clear on top, do you stop timing instrument time?
(I sort of do. I guess as to how much of the flight was really instrument
time)

For those of you who log the whole flight as instrument time in the last
question, what if you cancel IFR when on top and re-file when you get to
your destination and need to descend through the clouds to get down?

For approaches, I think the rules force us into a corner. If there was a
minimum number of approach minutes that had to be logged in the previous 6
months. Then it would be easier to interpret that those 15 seconds
descending through the cloud deck was loggable but not the rest of the
approach.

However, since it is simply a yes or no for each approach, then I tend to
err in my favor. If I pass through a thin, thin, really thin layer and then
get cleared for a visual, I find it hard to log that as an instrument
approach. But, if I have to intercept, track, or maneuver while in the
clouds during any part of the approach, I consider that loggable.

Ron and Steven, this answers the question of what kind of approach is
loggable, how? If you're going to have a cat fight, at least change the
subject line.

--------------------------------
Travis


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

"
I never said any such thing. Prove your allegations.


You posted your ignorance to the "FAA form 337" thread at
rec.aviation.homebuilt.

Did you cancel you post, so you could lie now, Ron?


I didn't cancel any post. What I said, and it is still true, that 337's

do not apply
to homebuilts (or any other experimental). It is you who have a

mistaken view
of the rules. Part 43 does NOT apply to experimentals. It says this

explicitly
in 43.1 (b), but you seem to not be able to understand that.



  #53  
Old February 4th 04, 04:24 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

As I said, there is no definition of instrument conditions in the rules.

Hence
the best we can come up with is the legal counsel.

Your excessively pedantic nature can clearly see that they are different

words.


So you think 'instrument conditions' is something other than 'IFR
conditions'? What?


  #54  
Old February 4th 04, 04:38 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

It doesn't say anything about VFR minimums.


It says "instrument flight conditions", which are below VFR minimums.



The FAA affirms that there are times when you can be technically
above VFR minimums (not in the clouds and sufficient visibility), but
the horizon and the ground is obscured and those qualify for actual
instrument conditions, even though it's not bad enough to require IFR.


Which is literally contrary to the FARs.


  #55  
Old February 4th 04, 05:00 AM
Tarver Engineering
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"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

"
I never said any such thing. Prove your allegations.


You posted your ignorance to the "FAA form 337" thread at
rec.aviation.homebuilt.

Did you cancel you post, so you could lie now, Ron?


I didn't cancel any post. What I said, and it is still true, that 337's

do not apply
to homebuilts (or any other experimental).


No, Ron, that is what I posted.

What you posted is that a homebuilt is not an experimental.

Zero for three, Ron. You might want to stick to posting about something you
know something about. CFR 14 is obviously not your area of expertice.


  #56  
Old February 4th 04, 05:25 AM
Teacherjh
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How many of you log specific minutes of a flight as instrument time when you
are flying in and out of clouds? (I count it all as instrument time)

If you settle into severe clear on top, do you stop timing instrument time?


If any part of my flight takes me into a cloud, I log at least .1 for that
flight. If I'm in and out, I log only the part that's in, estimating as well
as I can to the tenth of an hour. Above an undercast but in the clear, I do
not log as instrument time. Between layers I'll sometimes log as instrument
time, depending on conditions, but I tend not to. If I can stay right side up
by looking out the window, I don't log it as instrument time. There really is
a big difference between being solid, and being sort of in the clouds.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)
  #57  
Old February 4th 04, 01:20 PM
Eclipsme
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

It doesn't say anything about VFR minimums.


It says "instrument flight conditions", which are below VFR minimums.



The FAA affirms that there are times when you can be technically
above VFR minimums (not in the clouds and sufficient visibility), but
the horizon and the ground is obscured and those qualify for actual
instrument conditions, even though it's not bad enough to require IFR.


Which is literally contrary to the FARs.


I don't think so. Think about being in multiple solid, sloping layers. No
horizon at all. More than VFR viz, but definitely IFR.

Harvey


  #58  
Old February 4th 04, 02:16 PM
Gary Drescher
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"Eclipsme" wrote in message
...
Think about being in multiple solid, sloping layers. No
horizon at all. More than VFR viz, but definitely IFR.


That's self-contradictory, because the FAA explicitly defines "IFR
conditions" as conditions that do NOT meet the VFR visibility requirements
(AIM Pilot/Controller Glossary).

--Gary



Harvey




  #59  
Old February 4th 04, 07:11 PM
John R Weiss
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

If you can't maintain level flight without reference to instruments,
because there is no discernible horizon for outside reference, you
are in actual instrument flight conditions.


How can that be? IFR conditions are weather conditions below the minimum
for flight under visual flight rules. You can easily have weather
conditions well above the minimum for flight under visual flight rules above
an undercast.


....OR you could just as easily have better than 3 miles visibility, 1,000'
clearance from the clouds, and NO way to determine the horizon from outside
reference: cumulus in the distance, towering cumulus in the area, sloped tops
of stratus in a front...

  #60  
Old February 4th 04, 07:29 PM
Ron Natalie
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message news:1CZTb.9561
So you think 'instrument conditions' is something other than 'IFR
conditions'? What?

According to the FAA counsel, it just means conditions that require you
to fly on instruments.

 




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