Some bad controllers

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:NeR2c.135424$Xp.582131@attbi_s54...
Jeff:

I fly into Phoenix all the time - I've never run into unfriendly
controllers. Busy, yes; unfriendly, no. I have been vectored all over the
place, but I assume that was for traffic or arrival/departure corridors or
some logical reason.

Phoenix has nine control towered airports under it's Class B airspace
including Luke AFB and Williams-Gateway (formerly Williams AFB) which is the
cargo hub for a 400 miles radius. PHX, during the winter months, is about
the sixth busiest airport in the country. Damn right it's busy

another main problem I had was him letting another plane get so close in IMC that
he had to give me a traffic alert. what happened to this seperation I was suppose
to be getting.

Teacherjh wrote:

freezing level was 7000-8000
[...]
I start my decent, between some clouds

Between how much cloud? This could be a serious pilot error, or not a big deal

so here I am now down from my
safe altitude above the clouds
[...]
I amnow stuck and I needed my
clearence or I would be in trouble.

... which is why I ask, above.

because he was too busy.
noone was talking except me.

On that frequency. Controllers often work many frequencies, and do things
besides talk on the radio.

then he does not want
me to do the ILS, he tells me to
decend to 2700 ft and to be
prepared for the visual.

You can request the ILS. But if he's clearing you for a visual, then you can
probably complete the visual. Not always though... I got a visual into DXR
once, but was in some CB and needed a real approach. The controller asked what
I wanted, so I took the Loc 8.

and I didnt even tell you
about the 1500 fpm downdraft
or when my engine started
losing power.

OK controllers, admit it. You have secret radio control over the weather and
the engine. Now if you could only control the hobbs meter for me too!

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Jeff wrote:

another main problem I had was him letting another plane get so close in IMC that
he had to give me a traffic alert. what happened to this seperation I was suppose
to be getting.

You pushed him and he probably tried to fit you in, which resulted in the traffic
aleart. Have you ever visited the TRACON, plugged in, and asked about the handoff
procedures from center to approach control for IFR arrivals?

the traffic alert came about 20 minutes after the clearance.
you fishing to look for the controller to be 100% right which we all know is not always
the case.


wrote:

Jeff wrote:

another main problem I had was him letting another plane get so close in IMC that
he had to give me a traffic alert. what happened to this seperation I was suppose
to be getting.

You pushed him and he probably tried to fit you in, which resulted in the traffic
aleart. Have you ever visited the TRACON, plugged in, and asked about the handoff
procedures from center to approach control for IFR arrivals?

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

On that frequency. Controllers often work many frequencies,
and do things besides talk on the radio.


When controllers are working many frequencies they typically broadcast on
all of them simultaneously. You won't hear other aircraft, but you will
hear the controller.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

On that frequency. Controllers often work many frequencies,
and do things besides talk on the radio.



When controllers are working many frequencies they typically broadcast on
all of them simultaneously. You won't hear other aircraft, but you will
hear the controller.



Is this true for all positions? I think our local controllers (sleepy
old ELM) sometimes work tower and ground at the same time and you don't
hear the ground communications on tower and vice versa.


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

On that frequency. Controllers often work many frequencies,
and do things besides talk on the radio.



When controllers are working many frequencies they typically broadcast
on
all of them simultaneously. You won't hear other aircraft, but you will
hear the controller.



Is this true for all positions? I think our local controllers (sleepy
old ELM) sometimes work tower and ground at the same time and you don't
hear the ground communications on tower and vice versa.


I don't know about in a tower cab, but when positions (ie-sectors) are
combined within radar facilities, the frequencies (transmitters and
receivers) are routed to whatever position gets the airspace. Thus, the
controller can hear on all freq's assigned to his airspace, and only has to
key his own mic to transmit. His transmissions are broadcast on all
frequencies he is working even though other stations can only hear the voice
traffic on their discrete freq. And I'm sure there could be non VSCS
exceptions in the wide open spaces of ARTCC's like ZAN, ZLC, ZDV, but surely
not in a tiny little piece of airspace that is a Tracon like Phoenix. (not
saying they ain't busy, just that Tracons don't usually cover much
territory....)

Chip, ZTL

In article , "Matthew S. Whiting"
writes:

Is this true for all positions? I think our local controllers (sleepy
old ELM) sometimes work tower and ground at the same time and you don't
hear the ground communications on tower and vice versa.


My experience when this would happen is that tower says "stay with me" or "stay
this freq" instead of working me on a different freq.

Chuck

PaulaJay1 wrote:
In article , "Matthew S. Whiting"
writes:


Is this true for all positions? I think our local controllers (sleepy
old ELM) sometimes work tower and ground at the same time and you don't
hear the ground communications on tower and vice versa.



My experience when this would happen is that tower says "stay with me" or "stay
this freq" instead of working me on a different freq.

Chuck

That happens often on the way back in, but they've always used .9 for
clearance delivery and taxi clearance outbound. Often when I arrived
late at night I would get the stay with me instruction. However, I
always call the ground frequency when heading out and have never been
instructed to switch to tower for either my IFR or taxi clearance.


Matt

Jeff wrote:
Just a quick note to any of you guys flying IFR into the phoenix area.
I just got back from a trip to phoenix from vegas, I had filed a
composit flgiht plan, VFR untill I was by phoenix then I would request
my IFR if it was needed since FSS reported overcast at 2700 and few at
600.

freezing level was 7000-8000, MEA was 9000 in some parts and 10,000
during other parts of route. I chose VFR the first part of the flight so
I could have the latitude to dodge clouds to prevent icing.

all went fine, I got handed off to phoenix approach, I was at 12,000 ft
on top of the layer, no way into phoenix except through that mess
either. So I asked phoenix for my IFR and he said I was cleared into
class B and to decend to 7000 and he would look for my clearence. I
start my decent, between some clouds and he comes back and says to turn
toward carefree if I want to pick up my IFR because he was to busy. no
one was talking except me.
then he told me to stay clear of class B. so here I am now down from my
safe altitude above the clouds, a nitwit controller, I zig zag between
some clouds and call him again, he says he cant see me on radar and to
turn towards carefree, so I figured I would follow the valley under some
clouds, then my wife says dont turn that way, that mountain is covered
by clouds, so I get back on the radio and tell the controller he got me
down here, I amnow stuck and I needed my clearence or I would be in
trouble. He finally said, ok, and gave it to me. man that guy ****ed me
off. there was another guy trying to do the same thing as me in a
cessna, right after I got my clearence, and the controller told him to
stay at 2500 ft and turn towards carefree because he was "saturated"
with IFR departures. Yet no one else was talking. then here I am in
these nasty clouds, outside temp about -2, he gives me to decend to
6000, then right after that screams at me traffic alert decend to 5000
...so I am in total IMC diving down to 5000 ft.. then he does not want
me to do the ILS, he tells me to decend to 2700 ft and to be prepared
for the visual. man what a crappy flight - and I didnt even tell you
about the 1500 fpm downdraft or when my engine started losing power.

that controller still has me ****ed off and its 2 days later.

It is not unusual for a controller to work more than one frequency.
That fact that you didn't hear any other traffic, doesn't mean there
wasn't other traffic.


Matt