European military prowess

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:34:20 +0100, Ralph Savelsberg wrote:



Cub Driver wrote:

Europeans are not spending their money for dumb military projects.
Also, we have all of the technology that you have and we have many things
that are not and will never be available to you.


But what will you do if Romania invades? Call out the Dutch marching
band?


Could you please explain what you mean by `the Dutch marching band'?

Ralph Savelsberg

He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

Al Minyard

Ralph Savelsberg

He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

Al Minyard

Not at all...The Dutch (H)Air Force is rather competent and capable for the
size of a nation it is.They have added KC-10 and AH-64s to their military in
recently years, not the mention the MLU for their F-16s.

They supported us on Iraq, and I believe they have troops in Iraq currently.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

"Ron" wrote in message
...
Ralph Savelsberg

He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

Al Minyard

Not at all...The Dutch (H)Air Force is rather competent and capable for
the
size of a nation it is.They have added KC-10 and AH-64s to their military
in
recently years, not the mention the MLU for their F-16s.

They supported us on Iraq, and I believe they have troops in Iraq
currently.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Ron,

I spent two years in a RNLAF wing and found them very professional. Enjoyed
the tour very much.

Regards,

Tex Houston

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
Could you please explain what you mean by `the Dutch marching band'?

The most impressive and best-financed part of the Dutch military.
(Actually, there are many of these bands. They are proof against any
effort to transfer the money to combat arms.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:


Let's see.... I've gotten the impression Dan Ford a.k.a. Cub Driver
is from the United States... which hasn't got any military forces at
all, unless you count those "old guards" and whatnot they have for
shows.

But when it comes to fighting a_real_war, I'm sure the Dutch are
significantly more competent. I'm sure the Dutch train for actual
warfare, unlike that girl scout camp the U.S. military calls "boot
camp". (where they btw must have so low demands so that noone fails,
since they need every single volunteer. For those who didn't know, the
U.S. "military" has big recruiting problems.)

Alan Minyard wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:34:20 +0100, Ralph Savelsberg wrote:



Cub Driver wrote:


Europeans are not spending their money for dumb military projects.
Also, we have all of the technology that you have and we have many things
that are not and will never be available to you.


But what will you do if Romania invades? Call out the Dutch marching
band?


Could you please explain what you mean by `the Dutch marching band'?

Ralph Savelsberg


He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

Al Minyard



Just because you're laughing doesn't mean it's funny or true for that
matter.
It's small, but what can you expect from a country with 15 million
people? Just like the military of most countries in NATO (including the
US) the force level has dropped since the end of the Cold War, but there
have been a lot of investments in new equipment (including the MLU
upgrade for the F-16s, the acquisition of Tanker aircraft and the
introduction of Chinook, Apache and Cougar helicopters into the AIr
Force, for instance)
The Army has got a tarnished reputation because of what happened in
Srebrenica in the FRY, although if you take circumstances there into
account, the view becomes quite a bit more nuanced.
The navy has a good, professional reputation, as does the Air Force.
Both are small but well-equipped and well-trained.
Your countryman, General Wesley Clark, had very good things to say about
the Dutch Air Force's participation during Allied Force. He actually
called it `one of the A-team players'.
The Dutch AF has operated over Afghanistan for over a year supporting
troops (including from the US) on the ground. The Dutch army together
with the Germans' have lead the international stabilisation force there
for several months. Dutch Marines, supported by the army and air force
are currently active in Iraq.

There is no basis for your statement other than your own misconceptions.

As for Cub Drivers' opinion: I'll leave explaining that to himself if
you don't mind.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

On 29 Oct 2003 01:07:46 GMT, 362436 (Ron) wrote:

Ralph Savelsberg

He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

Al Minyard

Not at all...The Dutch (H)Air Force is rather competent and capable for the
size of a nation it is.They have added KC-10 and AH-64s to their military in
recently years, not the mention the MLU for their F-16s.

They supported us on Iraq, and I believe they have troops in Iraq currently.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Ron, equipment does not make an Air Force, people do. Having pilots high
on drugs, ground crew that go on strike, etc makes me believe that they
are incompetent.

Al MInyard

Alan Minyard wrote:

On 29 Oct 2003 01:07:46 GMT, 362436 (Ron) wrote:


Ralph Savelsberg

He means the Dutch "military", which is an international joke.

Al Minyard

Not at all...The Dutch (H)Air Force is rather competent and capable for the
size of a nation it is.They have added KC-10 and AH-64s to their military in
recently years, not the mention the MLU for their F-16s.

They supported us on Iraq, and I believe they have troops in Iraq currently.


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter


Ron, equipment does not make an Air Force, people do. Having pilots high
on drugs, ground crew that go on strike, etc makes me believe that they
are incompetent.

Al MInyard


Indeed, equipment doesn't make an airforce, though there's little sense
in having one without decent equipment.
As for the people:

Pilots being high on drugs? I'm sorry, but that's a load of bull. Where
do you get these things from? Is it that you think that since the Dutch
drug policy is so liberal everybody (including pilots) gets `high'
regularly? That would also be a load of bull. BTW, if pilots being `high
on drugs' is a reason to call an Air Force incompetent or a joke, you
shouldn't forget the USAF's use of amphetamines to keep some of its
pilots going. I'd hardly call the USAF incompetent or a joke.
And ground crews that go on strike? When did that happen?
I'm dying to read what the `etc' you mention is.

Regards,
Ralph Savelsberg

Ron, equipment does not make an Air Force, people do. Having pilots high
on drugs, ground crew that go on strike, etc makes me believe that they
are incompetent.

Al MInyard

I have known some Dutch military pilots, and they are nothing like that. They
have been just as professional and competent as any others I have known.
Regarding Dutch pilots high on drugs, well that sounds rather silly to me. In
fact there was an USAF pilot discharged for marijuana usage and possession
earlier in the year.

The Dutch have been among our most reliable and steadfast allies..
Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

362436 (Ron) wrote:

I have known some Dutch military pilots, and they are nothing like that. They
have been just as professional and competent as any others I have known.
Regarding Dutch pilots high on drugs, well that sounds rather silly to me. In
fact there was an USAF pilot discharged for marijuana usage and possession
earlier in the year.

Marijuana? (We oughta' legalize it!)

The Dutch have been among our most reliable and steadfast allies..
Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

The Chief Pilot from my last Part 135 outfit I flew with was
originally from Dutch Guyana. Had a successful family-owned
charter/cropdusting bidnez down there in South America 'till
the unpleasantries chased him off and he relocated to Tampa.
Had tens of thousands of hours in his logbook and was *almost*
a good as me when it came to shooting Can't See **** IFR
approaches. )

Ron, equipment does not make an Air Force, people do. Having pilots high
on drugs, ground crew that go on strike, etc makes me believe that they
are incompetent.

Al MInyard

And their earings and hairnets getting snagged in thick brush too!!!

Cheers...Chris