Major McSally takes command :)

After a well described critique of the "mission" Ed concluded with:

Much like Warren Zevon's Werewolf of London, my hair was perfect.
Which could have been my downfall, since the rest of the tactical
types in goatskins still had vestiges of "helmet-hair."


Speaking from the Navigator/WSO side of the cockpit (aka backseat), it appears
as if it was just one of those days.
We did in that time period suggest a burr/flattop/"Princeton cut" to avoid the
"helmut hair" appearance. Also we preffered "English Leather" to Avon products
as the Eau de splash, fresh but outdoorsie.
It appears that you were just SOL for that encounter, as covered by the saying
of my people..."Some days you eat the cougar, some days the cougar eats you"
(Or bear or lion, whatever your tribe ascribes to )

Oxmoron1
MFE
Mentioned in Dispatches

Probably so, but there were those on this NG who were saying that her career
was over and done after the lawsuit. (I wasn't one of them BTW) She had some
very good arguments in her case, which have become moot now that Prince Sultan
AB has now reverted to RSAF control, and the active bases are now in countries
that are much more tolerant of servicewomen off-base. Having a number of
congressional friends certainly helped as well. She probably will be a O-6
and a wing commander in the future.




"Leslie Swartz" wrote:
No, Matt, if she were a MAN here career would
have been over. In today's
military, she'll be 0-6 BTZ and more than likely
a one-button within the
next five years.

"Equal" opportunity doncha know.

Steve Swartz




"Matt Wiser" wrote
in message
news:40992d8f$1@bg2....

I seem to remember some folks on this NG saying
her career was done after
that lawsuit. Now how soon will the Navy get
a female carrier squadron CO?




Cub Driver wrote:

This from the Aero-News Propwash email newsletter
this morning:

***********************************************

USAF Names First Female To Command Combat
Squadron
And You'll Never Guess...

The 354th Fighter
Squadron, based at Arizona's Davis-Monthan
AFB,
has a new
commander: Lt. Col. Martha McSally.

If that name rings familiar, you might remember
that the 38-year
old McSally sued the Pentagon three years
ago
because, while in
Saudi Arabia, the military made her wear
Muslim
religious garb --
called abayas -- so as not to offend the
locals.


That offended McSally's Christian sensibilities
and, she said,
was unnecessary. Other US women serving in
Saudi
Arabia --
diplomats and office workers -- didn't have
to comply with the
order.

The 354th conducts A-10 operations in both
Afhganistan
and Iraq.
But that's nothing new to McSally. She's
used
to being the
first.

In 1994, she was the first female USAF pilot
to conduct combat
operations.
FMI: www.af.mil

For the WHOLE story, go to

http://www.aero-news.net/news/milita...b5e06-fd6b-432
5-90da-2f6a92f465e8

************************************************* *****
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver
in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org


Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to
news gateway for usenet access!




Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

My guess is that she will make O-6 on time but not before and then go no
further. I strongly suspect that she has other plans than making the AF a
long term affair. If HRC manages to worm herself into power, McChing will
likely show up somewhere in the SecDef area.
"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 May 2004 18:51:31 -0400, "Leslie Swartz"
wrote:

No, Matt, if she were a MAN here career would have been over. In today's
military, she'll be 0-6 BTZ and more than likely a one-button within the
next five years.

"Equal" opportunity doncha know.

Steve Swartz

You certainly hit the nail on the head!!!! The feminazis will be holding
rallies
any day now, and SACOF****S, oops, I mean DACOWITS will be screaming
bloody murder.

Al Minyard

She had some
very good arguments in her case,

JAG got a good episode out of it.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

Aw, c'mon, Ed; give some credit to those folks who spent hours and
days in the ballistic missile holes. I would argue that what they did
on alert had more to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union than
anything we fighter pilots ever did. My last USAF assignment was with
the Ballistic Missile Office at Norton AFB (since shut down). I'm
authorized to wear the pocket rocket (and did) because of my time
there. I didn't feel that I deserved it, since I had never sat in the
hole, but I wore it anyway to show support to the folks that did. I
thank God that I got to see the sky most times that I did my job,
unlike the folks in the holes. And thank God that the SAC missileers
never got to shoot theirs.

Jim Thomas


Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..

And the missile badge, predecessor of the current generation fixation
with a badge for every specialty. Gotta look real close to see if the
brightly nickle-plated escutcheon is personnel, finance, food
services, JAG, or civil engineers.

For a while at Nellis we wanted to all wear missileer badges--only we
were going to wear them horizontally just below our wings. SAC's
missiles pointed upward, ours fired horizontally. We actually got to
shoot ours.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

On 9 May 2004 22:58:30 -0700, (Jim Thomas)
wrote:

Aw, c'mon, Ed; give some credit to those folks who spent hours and
days in the ballistic missile holes. I would argue that what they did
on alert had more to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union than
anything we fighter pilots ever did. My last USAF assignment was with
the Ballistic Missile Office at Norton AFB (since shut down). I'm
authorized to wear the pocket rocket (and did) because of my time
there. I didn't feel that I deserved it, since I had never sat in the
hole, but I wore it anyway to show support to the folks that did. I
thank God that I got to see the sky most times that I did my job,
unlike the folks in the holes. And thank God that the SAC missileers
never got to shoot theirs.

Jim Thomas

I always give credit where credit is due. The missileers did the job
assigned them with professionalism and skill. My comments on the badge
were in the nature of humor and not a disparagement of their efforts.

That being said, however, I'll disagree with your contention that
strategic missiles did more to hasten the collapse of the Soviet Union
than the tactical forces and the continued development and application
of weapons that demonstrated conclusively the superiority of American
technology, training and innovation. The collapse of Soviet client
forces and the inability of Soviet doctrine to counter or even compete
effectively led to the collapse.

Sitting and waiting with a deterrent force kept the peace, but it also
insured a stalemate. Demonstrating over the years that SA-2, 3, 4, 6,
7, 9, 11, 12, 13, etc. etc. couldn't protect against American airpower
and that MiG-17, 19, 21, 23, 27, 29 and AA-2,, etc etc, couldn't
counter US fighters, the armor couldn't shoot, scoot and communicate
as did ours and the maneuver elements of the ground forces couldn't
integrate and coordinate at the level of our tactical forces, and the
Navy couldn't project and sustain operations globally as ours could,
etc. etc. That's what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Snapping your fingers will keep the elephants away, if they aren't
coming anyway. Going where the elephant lives and kicking him in the
balls will get him to move out of the region.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Cub Driver wrote:

She had some
very good arguments in her case,

JAG got a good episode out of it.

One of my favorite episodes. They do get a lot of episode material from real-life
events. One based on Kelly Flinn a few years back, another similar to the
Tailhook scandal, Harm's landing a C-130 on a carrier (they remembered the
C-103 landing tests on USS Forrestal (CV-59) back in '63), and so forth.



all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver
in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org


Posted via www.My-Newsgroups.com - web to news gateway for usenet access!

Ed Rasimus wrote in message

That being said, however, I'll disagree with your contention that
strategic missiles did more to hasten the collapse of the Soviet Union
than the tactical forces and the continued development and application
of weapons that demonstrated conclusively the superiority of American
technology, training and innovation. The collapse of Soviet client
forces and the inability of Soviet doctrine to counter or even compete
effectively led to the collapse.

Sitting and waiting with a deterrent force kept the peace, but it also
insured a stalemate. Demonstrating over the years that SA-2, 3, 4, 6,
7, 9, 11, 12, 13, etc. etc. couldn't protect against American airpower
and that MiG-17, 19, 21, 23, 27, 29 and AA-2,, etc etc, couldn't
counter US fighters, the armor couldn't shoot, scoot and communicate
as did ours and the maneuver elements of the ground forces couldn't
integrate and coordinate at the level of our tactical forces, and the
Navy couldn't project and sustain operations globally as ours could,
etc. etc. That's what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.


I agree with everything you said, and defer to your expertise in these
areas. However, it is also true that trying to keep up with our
strategic weapons during the Reagan administration-- Peacekeeper,
Small ICBM, stealth technology, and others-- had no small part in
breaking the bear's budget and hastening the collapse of the Soviet
Union.

Jim Thomas

From: (Jim Thomas)
Date: 5/9/2004 11:58 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id:

Aw, c'mon, Ed; give some credit to those folks who spent hours and
days in the ballistic missile holes. I would argue that what they did
on alert had more to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union than
anything we fighter pilots ever did. My last USAF assignment was with
the Ballistic Missile Office at Norton AFB

Just spent some time there last week. What was Norton AFB, is now San
Bernardino International, not that there are exactly many international flights
or any airline traffic there. But it is host to a USFS tanker base, so got
quite a few loads of retardant there last week . Even saw my tanker on an La tv
station doing a drop.


Ron
Tanker 65, C-54E (DC-4)
Silver City Tanker Base

Ed Rasimus Wrote:

Sitting and waiting with a deterrent force kept the peace, but it also
insured a stalemate. Demonstrating over the years that SA-2, 3, 4, 6,
7, 9, 11, 12, 13, etc. etc. couldn't protect against American airpower
and that MiG-17, 19, 21, 23, 27, 29 and AA-2,, etc etc, couldn't
counter US fighters, the armor
couldn't shoot, scoot and communicate
as did ours and the maneuver elements of the ground forces couldn't
integrate and coordinate at the level of our tactical forces, and the
Navy couldn't project and sustain operations globally as ours could,
etc. etc. That's what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.


I think this may be a chicken-egg argument. I can argue that without U.S. ICBMs
(and hey, I'll even throw in SLBMs) to counter the Soviet equivelent, we would
never have been able to duel with Soviet client states as the USSR would have
felt much more at ease to step in and escalate things.

Snapping your fingers will keep the elephants away, if they aren't
coming anyway. Going where the elephant lives and kicking him in the
balls will get him to move out of the region.

In this case, the conventional world may have been kicking the elephant in the
nuts, but the nuclear guys had a knife at his throat allowing that to happen.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"