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Bertie 737 question



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 11th 08, 02:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Tina
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Posts: 500
Default Bertie 737 question

On Jun 11, 9:06 am, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote:
Viperdoc wrote:
Just landed yesterday in a British Air 73. Unlike American jets, didn't feel
any thrust reverse, just some pretty hefty braking action. At least they
gave us a sandwich, unlike the American carriers.


I wonder if Anthony will be surprised when I stop by his place on Rue de
General in Paris? I have a lot of camera gear, so will be sure to post
photos.


Will do some sail plane flying in Provence later this week- it's a lot
different experience, much adverse yaw and lots of rudder required, and
what's with this flying without headsets?


JN


Take one of his tours and don't tell him who you are till the end. And
if I don't see photos I will be very upset.


As much fun as that might be for the rest of us, it would be service
well past heroic to use some hours in Paris that way.

Choice: Cover a live grenade in the fox hole or a tour with Anthony?

Remember that old Jack Benny joke, he was the legendary cheapskate? He
was being held up, the crook said "Your money or your life" and Benny
paused and said "I'm thinking about it"?

  #12  
Old June 11th 08, 03:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]
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Posts: 2,969
Default Bertie 737 question

Tina wrote in
:

On Jun 11, 1:13 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Big John wrote
:



Bertie


I flew four flightin the 737 over Memorial week.


Each landing started from a down wind and long stablized final VFR.


I did not detect any attitude change or thorttle change after
turning final.


I also DID NOT feel or see any flare and impact with ground was
what I would say was hard.


Is this normal in the 737, to set up an attitude and fly into the
ground without flaring?


Nothing broke on any of the landings and we walked awasy from each
so must have been good ladings like they say???


Well, the airpane doesn't pitch so much largely because the slats and
flaps come out together, unlike airplanes with flaps only. If you fly
smoothly power changes should be minimal. We don't really flare in
the same way you would in most. just a quick tug at abou t15 feet to
reduce the rate of descent, but we're not supposed to grease it on
for a few reasons. One, float and wasted runway. two, it gets all the
spoilers and othe squat switch things going as well as the immediate
availability of brakes. three, it breaks the surface tension of any
water if it's a wet runway and four it gets the wheels spinning
straight away. you can scuff tires badly in a greaser..

Bertie


I can understand everything you said about firm landings, except the
tire scuffing comment. It would seem to me landing firm would smoke
the tires since they have to accelerate to the correct speed right
now, where a gentle touch down would let them accelerate more slowly.
A more gentle acceleration means less shear forces on the tire, so I'm
missing something important. Are there any insights you can offer?


Yeah. They're pretty heavy and take a bit to get spinning, so if you
grease it on, you just scuff rubber off of one spot until they start
rotating. It's even worse on a wet runway, where water can slice through
rubber very quickly. Sounds crazy, i know. If you're at an airport where
you can see the tires, it's not uncommon to see parts of tires with oval
wear patches where they've worn through to the first layer of cord.
That's allowed, btw.


Bertie


Bertie
  #13  
Old June 11th 08, 04:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Stealth Pilot[_2_]
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Posts: 846
Default Bertie 737 question

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:38:20 -0700 (PDT), Tina
wrote:


gets the wheels spinning straight away. you can scuff tires badly in a
greaser..


Bertie


I think you're in a lot of trouble when a primary gauge is a piece of
yarn taped to the windscreen!


standard is a twinings or tetleys tea bag string.
  #14  
Old June 11th 08, 05:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Tina
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Posts: 500
Default Bertie 737 question

On Jun 11, 11:30 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:38:20 -0700 (PDT), Tina
wrote:

gets the wheels spinning straight away. you can scuff tires badly in a
greaser..


Bertie


I think you're in a lot of trouble when a primary gauge is a piece of
yarn taped to the windscreen!


standard is a twinings or tetleys tea bag string.


Viperdoc said he's flying in France! Are you telling me the French
would use an English tea bag? You have just destroyed my whole image
of French nationalism.

In Elmira NY where I took two glider flights the instructor had a real
sense of humor. He taped a piece of pink yarn on the window. (No, he
was not being sexist, just funny). I have that piece of yarn taped
into a scrap book now. For what it's worth the instructor claimed I
bruised his knees I was yanking the stick around so much. Can you say
'over controlling'?

The yarn actually did point straight back for a couple of minutes
during that flight, most often when it was on the way from one side to
the other.

  #15  
Old June 11th 08, 05:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default Bertie 737 question


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Tina wrote in
:

On Jun 11, 1:13 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:



Well, the airpane doesn't pitch so much largely because the slats and
flaps come out together, unlike airplanes with flaps only. If you fly
smoothly power changes should be minimal. We don't really flare in
the same way you would in most. just a quick tug at abou t15 feet to
reduce the rate of descent, but we're not supposed to grease it on
for a few reasons. One, float and wasted runway. two, it gets all the
spoilers and othe squat switch things going as well as the immediate
availability of brakes. three, it breaks the surface tension of any
water if it's a wet runway and four it gets the wheels spinning
straight away. you can scuff tires badly in a greaser..

Bertie


I can understand everything you said about firm landings, except the
tire scuffing comment. It would seem to me landing firm would smoke
the tires since they have to accelerate to the correct speed right
now, where a gentle touch down would let them accelerate more slowly.
A more gentle acceleration means less shear forces on the tire, so I'm
missing something important. Are there any insights you can offer?


Yeah. They're pretty heavy and take a bit to get spinning, so if you
grease it on, you just scuff rubber off of one spot until they start
rotating. It's even worse on a wet runway, where water can slice through
rubber very quickly. Sounds crazy, i know. If you're at an airport where
you can see the tires, it's not uncommon to see parts of tires with oval
wear patches where they've worn through to the first layer of cord.
That's allowed, btw.


Bertie

This may be mostly a function of speed. I never heard of it at the entry
level, such as 150s and 172s, but the issue has been discussed from time to
time in the aviation magazines--especially is there is any drag on the
brakes.

Peter


  #16  
Old June 11th 08, 09:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
george
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Posts: 803
Default Bertie 737 question

On Jun 12, 12:38 am, Tina wrote:

I think you're in a lot of trouble when a primary gauge is a piece of
yarn taped to the windscreen!


You can't knock an indicator with a 100% accuracy though
  #17  
Old June 11th 08, 09:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Vaughn Simon
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Posts: 735
Default Bertie 737 question


"Tina" wrote in message
...
I think you're in a lot of trouble when a primary gauge is a piece of
yarn taped to the windscreen!


I have seen yaw strings on military heavy iron, both fixed and rotary wing.
The main reason we don't use yaw strings on SEL is that pesky front-mounted
propeller kinda messes with the airflow around the windscreen. (Step on the
ball, step away from the string)

Vaughn


  #18  
Old June 11th 08, 10:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Maxwell[_2_]
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Posts: 2,043
Default Bertie 737 question


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in
:

Thanks Big John, you're feeding the troll.




BERTIE HUNGRY!



Bertie



Bertie dumb ass lamer.


  #19  
Old June 12th 08, 04:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk
Bertie the Bunyip[_25_]
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Posts: 3,735
Default Bertie 737 question

"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in :


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in
:

Thanks Big John, you're feeding the troll.




BERTIE HUNGRY!



Bertie



Bertie dumb ass lamer.




Maxwell yummY!

Bertie
  #20  
Old June 12th 08, 04:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_24_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,969
Default Bertie 737 question

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
Tina wrote in
news:3de72bf8-4626-4420-8b38-9b7248d4a236

@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
:

On Jun 11, 1:13 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:



Well, the airpane doesn't pitch so much largely because the slats
and flaps come out together, unlike airplanes with flaps only. If
you fly smoothly power changes should be minimal. We don't really
flare in the same way you would in most. just a quick tug at abou
t15 feet to reduce the rate of descent, but we're not supposed to
grease it on for a few reasons. One, float and wasted runway. two,
it gets all the spoilers and othe squat switch things going as well
as the immediate availability of brakes. three, it breaks the
surface tension of any water if it's a wet runway and four it gets
the wheels spinning straight away. you can scuff tires badly in a
greaser..

Bertie

I can understand everything you said about firm landings, except the
tire scuffing comment. It would seem to me landing firm would smoke
the tires since they have to accelerate to the correct speed right
now, where a gentle touch down would let them accelerate more
slowly. A more gentle acceleration means less shear forces on the
tire, so I'm missing something important. Are there any insights you
can offer?


Yeah. They're pretty heavy and take a bit to get spinning, so if you
grease it on, you just scuff rubber off of one spot until they start
rotating. It's even worse on a wet runway, where water can slice
through rubber very quickly. Sounds crazy, i know. If you're at an
airport where you can see the tires, it's not uncommon to see parts
of tires with oval wear patches where they've worn through to the
first layer of cord. That's allowed, btw.


Bertie

This may be mostly a function of speed. I never heard of it at the
entry level, such as 150s and 172s, but the issue has been discussed
from time to time in the aviation magazines--especially is there is
any drag on the brakes.



Yeah, speed and the mass of the things. At a guess, I'd say 737 wheels
weigh in the region of 200 lbs and larger aircraft even more of course.
Takes a moment ot get them going. Nothing to do with brakes, of course




Bertie


 




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