This should settle it!

http://overtheairwaves.com/

I refer to the first article on this page.

--
Oz Lander.
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong.

"Oz Lander" wrote in message
...
http://overtheairwaves.com/

I refer to the first article on this page.

--
Oz Lander.
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong.


From the article-
"Fortunately for the good guys, FAR 61.65(e) limits the use of flight
simulators to 10 or 20 out of the required 40 hours required for the
instrument rating. This means that the instrument student must actually fly
a real airplane for a minimum of 20 to 30 hours in either simulated or
actual instrument conditions."

Now, I'm not a pilot (real or imagined) but I'm surprised that ANY simulator
time is credited toward the actual "40 hours required for the instrument
rating".

I would think that the simulator would be a good tool to acclimate the
student to the environment prior to making the requisite 40 hours of

actual flight time but not to replace flying time. (Is simulator time
credited hour-for-hour?)

As a skydiver I recognize the benefits of using vertical wind tunnels to
"pretrain" first-jump students in stability and orientation. It's also
useful for working

out problems a student may have in mastering a stable freefall, but to get
your license you gotta do the actual jumps.

muff528 writes:

Now, I'm not a pilot (real or imagined) but I'm surprised that ANY simulator
time is credited toward the actual "40 hours required for the instrument
rating".

I'm not. Much of instrument flight is watching instruments, following
procedures, and other activities that can be very accurately simulated. It's
the exact opposite of "seat of the pants" flying (which most simulators handle
poorly, unless they provide full motion).

--
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I'm not. Much of instrument flight is watching instruments, following
procedures, and other activities that can be very accurately simulated. It's

Incorrect statement. Learning to fly on instruments also entails
learning to firmly shut out the "seat of the pants" sensations. The
"seat of the pants" sensations are not there when flying a desktop
computer so its incorrect to say that instrument flying can be
"accurately simulated" on a desktop. Only when you fly a real airplane
on instruments can you fully learn to ignore the often contradicatory
sensory input from the movements of the airplane.

writes:

Incorrect statement. Learning to fly on instruments also entails
learning to firmly shut out the "seat of the pants" sensations. The
"seat of the pants" sensations are not there when flying a desktop
computer so its incorrect to say that instrument flying can be
"accurately simulated" on a desktop.

This only makes a difference if you are conditioned to interpret physical
sensations in certain ways.

Only when you fly a real airplane
on instruments can you fully learn to ignore the often contradicatory
sensory input from the movements of the airplane.

It might help to start with instrument flight and then continue with visual
flight, instead of the other way around. Of course, that might make VFR
skills more difficult to acquire.

--
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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
writes:

Incorrect statement. Learning to fly on instruments also entails
learning to firmly shut out the "seat of the pants" sensations. The
"seat of the pants" sensations are not there when flying a desktop
computer so its incorrect to say that instrument flying can be
"accurately simulated" on a desktop.

This only makes a difference if you are conditioned to interpret physical
sensations in certain ways.

Everyone I know is preconditioned from birth, by the earth's gravitational
field,
to accept what we commonly know as "up" to, in fact, be "up". We then learn
to interpret the direction of the "pull" of gravity to be in the direction
opposite of "up".
Anyone without vertigo or similar physical ailment or without external input
(suchs as
changes in velocity or direction, or riding in a spacecraft in ballistic
flight) should
be able to know his orientation with his eyes closed.

Again, as a non-pilot, I would think that the primary purpose of a
simulator, in the
context of IFR flying, would be to practice navigational routines or to
familiarize
yourself with a particular a/c type so that when presented with a real-life
instrument
flying situation in that a/c the procedures are not compromised by the
increased stress
of confusing sensory inputs.

But, by reading the responses by actual pilots and instructors, I get the
sense that
sims are more useful as instructional tools for IFR than I thought.

BS, Tony P.

" It might help to start with instrument flight and then continue with
visual
flight, instead of the other way around. Of course, that might make VFR
skills more difficult to acquire.


That should narrow down the flock of potential pilots. Just scare the hell
out of
them right outta the gate.

tp

We are conditioned to interpret physical sensations in certain ways. Right
from birth. That's why, even in VMC some people get airsick. And that's why
it's so hard to ignore those sensations in IMC.

mike

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

This only makes a difference if you are conditioned to interpret physical
sensations in certain ways.
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On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:04:35 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

writes:

Incorrect statement. Learning to fly on instruments also entails
learning to firmly shut out the "seat of the pants" sensations. The
"seat of the pants" sensations are not there when flying a desktop
computer so its incorrect to say that instrument flying can be
"accurately simulated" on a desktop.

This only makes a difference if you are conditioned to interpret physical
sensations in certain ways.


my boy you are so wrong that I can only hope that you never ever get
to fly an actual aircraft in those conditions.
the shock of being exposed to reality may be just too much for you.

Stealth Pilot

Incorrect statement.


Do yourself a favor and don't discuss this with the village idiot. This
group has been through the process numerous times. He only pretends to
be interested in learning. You won't change his mind since his belief
that he is special is rooted in the belief that he "flies" when he
plays MSFS.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)