Is rudder required for coordinated turns?

Mxsmanic wrote
I've been flying the Baron 58 and the 737 from the stock game

All swept wing airliners that I am familiar with (Boeings) have
a full time yaw damper that keeps the rudder where it belongs at
all times. The airplanes make perfectly coordinated turns with
one's feet flat on the floor. :-)

Bob Moore
ATP B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

Darrell S schrieb:

That said, most aircraft require a pilot input of rudder to coordinate a
roll input. Little, if any, rudder is required once the roll stops and a
constant bank is maintained.

Ever flown a glider? You'd be surprized! A coordinated turn is *always*
a turn around all three axis.

If some powered airplanes don't require rudder, it's because a) the
rudder is somehow coupled to the ailerons, b) the weight of the engine
will cause the nose to drop enough without rudder or c) the pilot
doesn't care enough about being coordinated. My experience says that
power-only pilots tend to solution c). (Note: The ball is a pretty
coarse instrument.)

Stefan

Darrell S schrieb:

That said, most aircraft require a pilot input of rudder to coordinate a
roll input. Little, if any, rudder is required once the roll stops and
a
constant bank is maintained.

Ever flown a glider? You'd be surprized! A coordinated turn is *always*
a turn around all three axis.

If some powered airplanes don't require rudder, it's because a) the
rudder is somehow coupled to the ailerons, b) the weight of the engine
will cause the nose to drop enough without rudder or c) the pilot
doesn't care enough about being coordinated. My experience says that
power-only pilots tend to solution c). (Note: The ball is a pretty
coarse instrument.)

Stefan

I've only had one introductory flight in a glider and that was more than 20
years ago in a two place Blanick.

The most memorable thing, aside from being about the most fun a person can
have in daylight, is that turn cooridination is much more than rolling in
and rolling out. Due to the combination of slow forward speed (when
spiralling at minimum rate of descent) and long wing span, the wing toward
the inside of the turn is much closer to the stall and a noticeable amount
of cross control is required.

Typically, powered aircraft are rarely flown in that portion of the flight
envelope and many pilots regard turns at low airspeed as extremely dangerous
and an invitation to an unintentional spin. Most of us were taught that the
low end of the airspeed envelope is hazardous and to be avoided in flight,
with the result that very few powered airplane pilots maintain proficiency
in very slow flight. Also, since the wings are short and the stall speeds
are generally higher, I doubt that the effect is ever really noticeable.

As to "c", the yaw string is a lor more sensitive, but takes a little more
practice than I was able to give it--since the doggoned thing works
backward!

Peter
Just my $0.02

mike regish wrote:
Yes. The rudder pedals move with aileron control inputs. And yes, they can
be moved independently of the ailerons due to the spring configuration. It
makes slipping down final in a crosswind a little more difficult since you
have the usual control forces due to aerodynamic pressure plus the pressure
applied by the springs. That's why I prefer to crab down final and
straighten out just before the wheels touch down. That's also easier on the
passengers.

A J-3 is a Piper Cub.

That takes me way back to sideslipping DH82's when rudder was used in
bucketfulls :-)

Bob Moore writes:

All swept wing airliners that I am familiar with (Boeings) have
a full time yaw damper that keeps the rudder where it belongs at
all times. The airplanes make perfectly coordinated turns with
one's feet flat on the floor. :-)

I thought a yaw damper was just intended to prevent dutch roll.

At least on the 737-800, the yaw damper can be turned on or off at
pilot discretion.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Marc,

because even on level flight the ball in
the inclinometer is hard to keep in place.

Have you compared realism settings yet? Also, in the bigger aircraft,
the ball will move less.


Incidentally, speaking of input devices, do any people here who use a
yoke* and who also actually fly think the yoke is more realistic (and
therefore worth the price tag) than the joystick?


As long as the yoke also has engine controls, I'd say yes, it's worth
it.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On 2006-09-19, Mxsmanic wrote:
Is it always necessary to use the rudder to execute a coordinated
turn?

It depends on the aircraft. In something like a Piper Arrow, virtually
no rudder is required for the kind of gentle turns you might do when
flying IFR - you can practically fly it with your feet on the floor.

At the other extreme is something like most gliders which need
significant rudder input when initiating a turn. Somewhere in between
are aircraft such as the Cessna 140, which needs some rudder when
initiating any turn, but not boot loads of rudder.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Mxsmanic wrote
At least on the 737-800, the yaw damper can be turned on or off at
pilot discretion.

Turned ON and OFF...Yes, but hardly at the pilot's discretion.

I have no 737 experience, but the 727 has 2 rudders and 2 yaw
dampers. If just one of them fails, the pilot must descend below
30,000' and slow to a specified maximum speed, just in case the
other one should fail also.

Bob Moore

Robert M. Gary wrote:
It depends on the plane. High performance planes almost always have
rudder interconnect. Planes like Arrows, Mooneys, Bonanzas, etc

My Beech Sundowner has an interconnect, but you still need a tad of input.

I'm pretty sure Arrows don't have an interconnect, but I only know about
the standard version, not the T-tail.

Peter Duniho wrote:

In addition, many airplanes are designed with Frise type ailerons, which
also reduce adverse yaw by creating extra drag on the up-deflected aileron
(to balance the drag on the down-deflected one).

Pete

Is this the same as "differential" ailerons, more "up" travel than "down"?