Tips on Getting Your Instrument Rating Sooner and at Lower Cost

Have you ever carefully studied what the regulations actually REQUIRE
regarding the
various experience requirements for an instrument rating?

The XC requirement in particular, is one that oftentimes unnecessarily adds
to the cost
of an instrument rating and delays getting it.

According to the FAA, a pilot who already has a private pilot certificate
and is
RATED in the airplane, can log PIC time, even while receiving dual
instruction.

This means that an instrument training XC trip, which is NOT on an
instrument flight plan (you don't have an instrument rating yet so you can't
file IFR as PIC) but is under the hood with an instructor as safety pilot,
can be logged as PIC XC.......so you can make the same time do double duty.

Much instrument training is done this way, with the instructor acting as
ATC.
Most of your instrument training will be hood time. Do it on a XC using
instrument
navigation procedures and you can save as much as 20-30 hours or more of the
additional cost of having to do it over twice. (The rules do not say SOLO
XC
the rules say PIC XC )

This means that most of your instrument time training can also be XC PIC IF
you
arrange your flights carefully in regard to what the regulations require and
make
your training part of an XC trip.

(As a side note, this is a good way to get your training because you get to
plan all aspects of the flight from the standpoint of FLYING an instrument
trip. Take-off, climb, enroute, approach and landing are all included.
Just do them to instrument standards under the hood and for all practical
purposes you are conducting an instrument flight.....and getting
double duty out of your flight dollar.).

There are a number of other rules that require certain amounts of flight
time
under varying conditions that usually are done one at a time, rather than
meeting several requirements on one flight.

If you look at your logbook, and study the regulations, you will see many
instances
of this.

If you are just getting started flying, this might be a good time to
CAREFULLY
STUDY the rules and ask your flight instructor about how to combine as many
requirements on a flight as possible to make your learning experience more
cost effective.

If you are like most pilots, flying is expensive. Getting the most for
your dolllar
is important. KNOWING what the regulations REALLY require can save
you a lot of money and get you on your way faster, without shortchanging
your
knowledge.

Being organized and having knowledge of what the rules really say can save
you a lot of money.

Remember. If you have questions about the way the regulations are
interpreted
you can call your local FAA Flight Standards District Office and ask an
Inspector.

They are there to help you.

P.S. You might like to read
HOW TO TRAIN YOUR FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
http://webplus.locators.estates.co.uk/hint6.html#train

In my experience the #1 time-delay comes from getting the written test done.
If/when I decide to go for my commercial I'm not going to even start taking
lessons until after I've done the written. Doing the same with my private &
instrument would have saved me 3 calendar months on each. And in general,
the fewer calendar months you spend training, the fewer hours you spend in
the airplane fixing things you forgot from previous lessons.

-cwk.

"Fred" wrote in message
ink.net...
Have you ever carefully studied what the regulations actually REQUIRE
regarding the
various experience requirements for an instrument rating?

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
In my experience the #1 time-delay comes from getting the written test
done.
If/when I decide to go for my commercial I'm not going to even start
taking
lessons until after I've done the written. Doing the same with my private
&
instrument would have saved me 3 calendar months on each. And in general,
the fewer calendar months you spend training, the fewer hours you spend in
the airplane fixing things you forgot from previous lessons.

INDEED!

-c

What would you say is the best way to prepared for this with out going to
the flight schools classes.
( I live far enough away from there that if I make the trip I might as well
go flying, cuz I don't want to do it that often)
Apparently AOPA gave my name to Kings Schools and they had a salesman call
to see if they could sell me the DVD course.

I have been plodding through all the Gliems manuals. Any other ways? The
Kings school DVD's are another 1.5 hours of dual, they way I look at it, but
if they are super fantastic I guess I'll have to see about getting them.

--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot
KFRG

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
In my experience the #1 time-delay comes from getting the written test
done.
If/when I decide to go for my commercial I'm not going to even start
taking
lessons until after I've done the written. Doing the same with my
private
&
instrument would have saved me 3 calendar months on each. And in
general,
the fewer calendar months you spend training, the fewer hours you spend
in
the airplane fixing things you forgot from previous lessons.

INDEED!

-c

It depends on what you need. I'm an information sponge and being 28 still
have the psychology of test-taking pretty fresh in my mind. All I needed was
practice and polishing to get the details right, so I used the Gleim
software for both my private and my instrument. It has a "learning" mode
where you go through the questions and it gives you an immediate explanation
of why your answer was right or wrong. Plus it keeps track of scores, so you
can see how you're doing. When you feel ready, it can do a full simulated
test session exactly like what you'll see in the test center.

I got most of my book learnin' from the Dogan book, and I was overall
pleased with it. Anything that the Gleim description or the book didn't make
clear I talked over with my instructor, and that took care of it. In the
end I got an 82, but by that point I simply wanted to pass and get the damn
thing over with as it was holding up my taking the checkride. I've taken
enough standardized tests to know what they do and do not measure
effectively.

Best,
-cwk.

"Dave" wrote in message
news:KWa9d.741$Ua.470@trndny03...
What would you say is the best way to prepared for this with out going to
the flight schools classes.

Buy an IFR prep course/dvd thing (new or on ebay) then sell it on ebay when
you are done. The King one seems to be pretty good about prepping you for
the knowledge test if you can make it through their cheesy antics.

Re-selling them makes the cost easier to manage.


"Dave" wrote in message
news:KWa9d.741$Ua.470@trndny03...
What would you say is the best way to prepared for this with out going to
the flight schools classes.
( I live far enough away from there that if I make the trip I might as
well
go flying, cuz I don't want to do it that often)
Apparently AOPA gave my name to Kings Schools and they had a salesman call
to see if they could sell me the DVD course.

I have been plodding through all the Gliems manuals. Any other ways? The
Kings school DVD's are another 1.5 hours of dual, they way I look at it,
but
if they are super fantastic I guess I'll have to see about getting them.

--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot
KFRG

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
In my experience the #1 time-delay comes from getting the written test
done.
If/when I decide to go for my commercial I'm not going to even start
taking
lessons until after I've done the written. Doing the same with my
private
&
instrument would have saved me 3 calendar months on each. And in
general,
the fewer calendar months you spend training, the fewer hours you
spend
in
the airplane fixing things you forgot from previous lessons.

INDEED!

-c

I used the Gleim Audio CD's, Test Prep Software and Manual. I wasn't that
thrilled with the Audio CD's but the test prep software w/manual were
superb. After taking one section at a time and using the "Study Session"
feature, I was able breeze throught it fairly quickly. The software will
even emulate several test center formats so you can practice taking the test
as many times as you like until you feel comfortable.

PS I did try the King Tapes and while they do tranfer some knowledge I can't
stomach them for long at a time. Good luck.


"Dave" wrote in message
news:KWa9d.741$Ua.470@trndny03...
What would you say is the best way to prepared for this with out going to
the flight schools classes.
( I live far enough away from there that if I make the trip I might as
well
go flying, cuz I don't want to do it that often)
Apparently AOPA gave my name to Kings Schools and they had a salesman call
to see if they could sell me the DVD course.

I have been plodding through all the Gliems manuals. Any other ways? The
Kings school DVD's are another 1.5 hours of dual, they way I look at it,
but
if they are super fantastic I guess I'll have to see about getting them.

--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot
KFRG

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
In my experience the #1 time-delay comes from getting the written test
done.
If/when I decide to go for my commercial I'm not going to even start
taking
lessons until after I've done the written. Doing the same with my
private
&
instrument would have saved me 3 calendar months on each. And in
general,
the fewer calendar months you spend training, the fewer hours you
spend
in
the airplane fixing things you forgot from previous lessons.

INDEED!

-c

I used the Gleim Audio CD's, Test Prep Software and Manual. I wasn't that
thrilled with the Audio CD's but the test prep software w/manual were
superb. After taking one section at a time and using the "Study Session"
feature, I was able breeze throught it fairly quickly. The software will
even emulate several test center formats so you can practice taking the test
as many times as you like until you feel comfortable.

PS I did try the King Tapes and while they do tranfer some knowledge I can't
stomach them for long at a time. Good luck.


"Dave" wrote in message
news:KWa9d.741$Ua.470@trndny03...
What would you say is the best way to prepared for this with out going to
the flight schools classes.
( I live far enough away from there that if I make the trip I might as
well
go flying, cuz I don't want to do it that often)
Apparently AOPA gave my name to Kings Schools and they had a salesman call
to see if they could sell me the DVD course.

I have been plodding through all the Gliems manuals. Any other ways? The
Kings school DVD's are another 1.5 hours of dual, they way I look at it,
but
if they are super fantastic I guess I'll have to see about getting them.

--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot
KFRG

"gatt" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
In my experience the #1 time-delay comes from getting the written test
done.
If/when I decide to go for my commercial I'm not going to even start
taking
lessons until after I've done the written. Doing the same with my
private
&
instrument would have saved me 3 calendar months on each. And in
general,
the fewer calendar months you spend training, the fewer hours you
spend
in
the airplane fixing things you forgot from previous lessons.

INDEED!

-c

"Fred" wrote in message
ink.net...
This means that an instrument training XC trip, which is NOT on an
instrument flight plan (you don't have an instrument rating yet so you
can't
file IFR as PIC) but is under the hood with an instructor as safety pilot,
can be logged as PIC XC.......so you can make the same time do double
duty.

A private pilot can log PIC XC time for an instrument training XC trip even
if the flight is IFR (or even in IMC). FAR 61.51e1i requires only that the
pilot be rated for the aircraft in order to log PIC time as
sole-manipulator. There is no requirement that the pilot be rated for the
conditions of flight, or that the pilot actually be PIC.

--Gary

This means that an instrument training XC trip, which is NOT on an
instrument flight plan (you don't have an instrument rating yet so you can't
file IFR as PIC) but is under the hood with an instructor as safety pilot,
can be logged as PIC XC.......so you can make the same time do double duty.


Well, sort of. You need to make this arrangement beforehand, because LOGGING
PIC time and BEING PIC are two different animals, kind of like dolphin (the
kind you eat) and dolphin (as in Flipper) are two different animals.

You can =log= PIC time as a non-instrument-rated private pilot, even under an
IFR flight plan that your instructor files, even though the instructor must
=be= PIC(*). However, you can =not= use this time as the time required under
61.65(d)(1). Though it's in your logbook as PIC (sole manipulator, or "Hands On
Time"), you were not PIC (Top Dog) on that flight. I know you didn't claim
this to be true; I state it for completeness.

You can also log PIC time if you are flying under VFR, under the hood, with the
instructor also acting as safety pilot, irrespective of who =is= PIC. This is
the case I believe you were referring to, and yes, if you and your instructor
agree that =you= (the student) are to be Top Dog on that flight, then the time
counts towards the time required under 61.65(d)(1). It might be the case that
you need to do this (for example, if the instructor's medical has lapsed, I
believe she can still give you required instruction, she just can't be Top Dog,
though this would require another current pilot in the back to act as safety
pilot, which is a required crewmember under the circumstances, which brings us
back to the pathological case referred to earlier). On the other hand, it is
also possible that the (current) instructor elects to act as Top Dog (and =be=
PIC), in which case though you could log HOT time (PIC time) you could not use
it as the time required under 61.65(d)(1). It might even be necessary (for
example, if your own medical has lapsed, though I think that in that case you
might not be able to log the time at all; 61.23 does not list "receiving flight
instruction" as an exception)

So, yes, you can make the time do double duty, but you need to read the regs
carefully. Remember, HOT time doesn't make you Top Dog, and being Top Dog
doesn't make you HOT.

Jose
==
(*) OK, there are pathological cases where a third person sitting in the back
could BE PIC, for now let's not go there.. oh, never mind, we already did.

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)