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#1
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Israeli Stealth???
Several months ago someone mentioned that the Israelis were developing
some form of secret craft called the "Seraph". What is this- a stealth aircraft or UCAV? Did Jane's ever cover it? If so, I missed it Kenneth Williams |
#3
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(JT) wrote in message . com...
(Kenneth Williams) wrote in message om... Several months ago someone mentioned that the Israelis were developing some form of secret craft called the "Seraph". What is this- a stealth aircraft or UCAV? Did Jane's ever cover it? If so, I missed it Kenneth Williams This is actually a South African project. Here's a good link with information and pictures. http://www.invisible-defenders.org/p...avs/seraph.htm -----JT----- Actually, it's more complicated than that. South Africa's project is indeed called "Seraph" and is known by the Israelis. However, the "Seraph" (Fiery Serpent) the IAF is interested in is an aircraft based on the German "Firefly II" that supposedly was test-flown in recent years in South Africa at the Overberg range. The original MBB Lampyridae (Firefly) was a stealth interceptor remarkably close in resemblence to the early F-117. Supposedly, the US found out about the aircraft in 1981 and pressured West Germany to give it up by 1989- project cancelled. However, as MBB became DASA, DB Aerospace, and now EADS it is said that the Germans never gave the project up and it evolved into a highly advanced NATO stealth project known as "Firefly II"- a tailless medium-size black triangle (powerplant unknown). Israeli-German military co-operation is increasing, so it is not that hard to believe that the Israelis were aware of the Firefly II test flight at Overberg. The Israelis might have even witnessed it. Anyway, the IAF "Seraph" is related to a stealth aircraft, not South Africa's project. Rob |
#4
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(robert arndt) wrote in message . com...
(JT) wrote in message . com... (Kenneth Williams) wrote in message om... Several months ago someone mentioned that the Israelis were developing some form of secret craft called the "Seraph". What is this- a stealth aircraft or UCAV? Did Jane's ever cover it? If so, I missed it Kenneth Williams This is actually a South African project. Here's a good link with information and pictures. http://www.invisible-defenders.org/p...avs/seraph.htm -----JT----- Actually, it's more complicated than that. South Africa's project is indeed called "Seraph" and is known by the Israelis. However, the "Seraph" (Fiery Serpent) the IAF is interested in is an aircraft based on the German "Firefly II" that supposedly was test-flown in recent years in South Africa at the Overberg range. The original MBB Lampyridae (Firefly) was a stealth interceptor remarkably close in resemblence to the early F-117. Supposedly, the US found out about the aircraft in 1981 and pressured West Germany to give it up by 1989- project cancelled. However, as MBB became DASA, DB Aerospace, and now EADS it is said that the Germans never gave the project up and it evolved into a highly advanced NATO stealth project known as "Firefly II"- a tailless medium-size black triangle (powerplant unknown). Israeli-German military co-operation is increasing, so it is not that hard to believe that the Israelis were aware of the Firefly II test flight at Overberg. The Israelis might have even witnessed it. And the source for this "info" is...? Anyway, the IAF "Seraph" is related to a stealth aircraft, not South Africa's project. Uhmmm...the South African project is (was? not a lot of progress reported of late, the last being in 2001...) also a stealthy design. Brooks Rob |
#5
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Rob, do you have any links for this project? Sounds really
interesting. I have seen data on the Lampyridae but this is the first time I'm hearing of the Firefly II. Regards, -----JT----- (robert arndt) wrote in message . com... Actually, it's more complicated than that. South Africa's project is indeed called "Seraph" and is known by the Israelis. However, the "Seraph" (Fiery Serpent) the IAF is interested in is an aircraft based on the German "Firefly II" that supposedly was test-flown in recent years in South Africa at the Overberg range. The original MBB Lampyridae (Firefly) was a stealth interceptor remarkably close in resemblence to the early F-117. Supposedly, the US found out about the aircraft in 1981 and pressured West Germany to give it up by 1989- project cancelled. However, as MBB became DASA, DB Aerospace, and now EADS it is said that the Germans never gave the project up and it evolved into a highly advanced NATO stealth project known as "Firefly II"- a tailless medium-size black triangle (powerplant unknown). Israeli-German military co-operation is increasing, so it is not that hard to believe that the Israelis were aware of the Firefly II test flight at Overberg. The Israelis might have even witnessed it. Anyway, the IAF "Seraph" is related to a stealth aircraft, not South Africa's project. Rob |
#6
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However, as MBB became DASA, DB
Aerospace, and now EADS it is said that the Germans never gave the project up and it evolved into a highly advanced NATO stealth project known as "Firefly II"- a tailless medium-size black triangle (powerplant unknown). Israeli-German military co-operation is increasing, so it is not that hard to believe that the Israelis were aware of the Firefly II test flight at Overberg. The Israelis might have even witnessed it. Anyway, the IAF "Seraph" is related to a stealth aircraft, not South Africa's project. Rob I think in so called firefly II not only the tail is missing,I would hardly call it an "airplane". Cheers also |
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#8
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Details of the craft are hard to come by but it is said to be an
equilateral black triangle, undetectable, near silent with the ability to hover, and utilizing an underneath light system for visual stealth at night (similar to the starfield type deception the Lockheed Stealth Blimp is said to use). Propulsion is non-jet and not in any way related to the older concept Lampyridae, which would have been a stealth interceptor in the '80s. Like all world black budget craft, the Firefly II is in the same class as the Astra, HALO, etc... leaked, unacknowledged, but flying somewhere... operational status unknown. Well if such concept actually is true, it would probably explain the sightings over Belgium in the early 90s. Ron Pilot/Wildland Firefighter |
#9
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#10
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(robert arndt) wrote in message . com...
(JT) wrote in message . com... Rob, do you have any links for this project? Sounds really interesting. I have seen data on the Lampyridae but this is the first time I'm hearing of the Firefly II. Regards, -----JT----- This information surfaced a few years back at the time the Germans helped Israel test fire a cruise missile from one of the Dolphin-class SSKs Germany sold Israel. The test firing took place off the coast of South Africa. In the European military journals of the time was also mention of Germany secretly testing a stealth design at the South African Overberg test range and that the two test aircraft were part of a NATO black budget stealth program called "Firefly II". It gave the history of the original MBB Lampyridae of 1981-89 (which even Janes did not report until 1995) and the persistant rumor that Germany never gave the program up and even expanded its stealth research into the NATO program. Details of the craft are hard to come by but it is said to be an equilateral black triangle, undetectable, near silent with the ability to hover, and utilizing an underneath light system for visual stealth at night (similar to the starfield type deception the Lockheed Stealth Blimp is said to use). Propulsion is non-jet and not in any way related to the older concept Lampyridae, which would have been a stealth interceptor in the '80s. Like all world black budget craft, the Firefly II is in the same class as the Astra, HALO, etc... leaked, unacknowledged, but flying somewhere... operational status unknown. Gee, another Aurora, huh? I guess based purely upon faith you have accept that it is flying... Where is the evidence? Brooks Rob |
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