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#11
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Barry wrote: A few years ago, an approach's minimum changed if the outer marker was bust. That is no longer the case. I remember there used to be a penalty for a middle marker out of service, but was the outer marker included on the table, too? Nope. |
#12
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You tell the controller that you are executing the miss, go around, and get
set up for the LOC-only, if one exists. Changing from an ILS to a LOC in midstream is not good practice...the assumption is that you briefed the ILS (even if you are alone), not the LOC. Bob Gardner "Lee Elson" wrote in message om... "Hilton" wrote in message thlink.net... Paul Tomblin wrote: In a previous article, Barry said: When doing an ILS approach, with the glideslope, is it a requirement to be able to identify the outer marker or a substitute? FAR 91.175(k) lists the "or a substitute" is the operative phrase. If the FAF is identified by an intersection, LOM, or DME, that's an acceptable substitute for a locator beacon. The FAF on an ILS is glideslope intersect, not the LOM, DME etc which are not required. HIlton Ahhh, but suppose your glideslope fails (onboard or on the ground) after this "not required" intersection (with the "X" on Jepp charts)? Suddenly you are doing a localizer approach and the FAF identification becomes much more useful as a place from which you start your timing. Lee |
#13
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THat's how I do it, although I've had instructors doing my IPC ding me for not
starting the timer on an ILS. As politely as I can, I remind them that the times are for a localizer only approach and that if the glideslope screws the pooch, I'm going missed. Bob Gardner wrote: You tell the controller that you are executing the miss, go around, and get set up for the LOC-only, if one exists. Changing from an ILS to a LOC in midstream is not good practice...the assumption is that you briefed the ILS (even if you are alone), not the LOC. Bob Gardner-- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#14
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In a previous article, Ray Andraka said:
THat's how I do it, although I've had instructors doing my IPC ding me for not starting the timer on an ILS. As politely as I can, I remind them that the times are for a localizer only approach and that if the glideslope screws the pooch, I'm going missed. The instructors I've had come back to that with "What if you didn't have enough fuel to go around again", to which I say "I would never be that stupid about fuel planning". After all, the glide slope isn't the only thing that could flag on the approach - what if you lost the localizer? Switch to a VOR or GPS approach on the fly? -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ "I'm fairly sure Linux exists principally because writing an operating system probably seems like a good way to pass the bignum months of darkness in Finland" - Rodger Donaldson |
#15
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to which I say "I would never be that stupid about fuel planning". You don't have to be "that stupid", you just have to be caught in weather that screws your plans. The one who says "I'd never be that stupid...." is the one that buys the farm. Start the timer on an ILS, it gives you more options when (not if) things go awry. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
#16
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Ray Andraka wrote
THat's how I do it, although I've had instructors doing my IPC ding me for not starting the timer on an ILS. As politely as I can, I remind them that the times are for a localizer only approach and that if the glideslope screws the pooch, I'm going missed. Are you sure they dinged you? If I'm doing an IPC and the student doesn't start the timer, I will question it. If he does, I will still question it. Perhaps this is what happened? There are good arguments on both sides. Some pilots believe that the time makes for a good crosscheck in case the GS is lost. This can be true if the pilot elects to go to LOC-only mins if he lacks another method of identifying the MAP, and it is especially true if the missed approach calls for an immediate climbing turn - recall that no consideration is given for an abnormally early turn with regard to obstacle protection. On the other hand, for missed approach turn purposes the point where the LOC becomes impossible to center will do as the point where the turn should be started. Some pilots believe that you should fly the approach you briefed, and if the GS goes out you should go missed. It could sure such to get confused and go to ILS mins on the LOC. Of course there are times when a missed approach is highly undesirable (single engine in a twin, adverse weather, low fuel) and there is the nagging question - if the GS just went out, what are you going to lose next - and how soon? My point is that either position is defensible, and which is best can depend on pilot style and proficiency, the equipment available, and the situation. In my opinion, the headwork part of flying IFR is at least as important as wiggling the stick and pushing buttons. I want to see if the student actually made a conscious decision to time or not to time, rather than acting out of habit and/or forgetting, and I want to see if he has considered the implications of his decision. Michael |
#17
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No, I got criticized heavily, even after the explanation. For a split approach, it
isn't jsut the timer, you've also got a different set of altitudes to commit to short term memory. I can only remember a few things at once in short term memory. Put too much in, and it is all gone. Michael wrote: -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#18
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Seems to me that there was an article in either IFR or Aviation Safety on
the subject of timing ILS approaches, and the consensus of the instructors quoted seemed to be "don't bother." Rationale was that the miss is based on an altitude, not a time, and if the glideslope goes kaflooey the pilot should wave off, brief the localizer approach or whatever, and start over again. I don't have a problem with that. Bob Gardner "Ray Andraka" wrote in message ... No, I got criticized heavily, even after the explanation. For a split approach, it isn't jsut the timer, you've also got a different set of altitudes to commit to short term memory. I can only remember a few things at once in short term memory. Put too much in, and it is all gone. Michael wrote: -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#19
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For a split approach, it isn't jsut the timer, you've also got a different set of altitudes to commit to short term memory. I can only remember a few things at once in short term memory. Put too much in, and it is all gone. It's on the plate, in big numbers. Kerflooey, take a peek. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
#20
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Kerflooey?
"Teacherjh" wrote in message ... It's on the plate, in big numbers. Kerflooey, take a peek. Jose -- (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address) |
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