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ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 5th 18, 11:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

I am making a new instrument panel for my ASW27. The original panel appears to have a textured overlay that looks similar to leather. As far as I can tell the panel was made from carbon fiber over a plug and then the texture was bonded to the panel most likely using a vacuum bagging method. It is bonded so well that it may have been part of the layup process. I would like to duplicate the same look if possible. I am looking for some help regarding possible texture materials and procedures to provide a new panel with the original manufactures results.

Thanks,
Chris
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  #2  
Old November 6th 18, 12:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

Schleicher sell the panel blanks at reasonable prices. And you can maybe find the flat Nextel paint to paint them just like the factory.
  #3  
Old November 6th 18, 12:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

....and the factory panels are not carbon fiber (presumably for safety and ease of fabrcation).
  #4  
Old November 6th 18, 12:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SF
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

The factory panels arrive painted. Make a test panel out of lexan first. Then cut the factory panel after you verify the fits and locations. Practice on something you can throw out without tears.
  #5  
Old November 6th 18, 12:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 5:26:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am making a new instrument panel for my ASW27. The original panel appears to have a textured overlay that looks similar to leather. As far as I can tell the panel was made from carbon fiber over a plug and then the texture was bonded to the panel most likely using a vacuum bagging method. It is bonded so well that it may have been part of the layup process. I would like to duplicate the same look if possible. I am looking for some help regarding possible texture materials and procedures to provide a new panel with the original manufactures results.

Thanks,
Chris


The panel is glass and the texture is in the mold. Black Gelcoat, then glass.
If you want it like the factory, save yourself a lot of wasted time and buy one from Willaims. If you specify your cutouts, they will cut it for you very reasonably.
UH
UH
  #6  
Old November 6th 18, 08:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 5:26:16 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am making a new instrument panel for my ASW27. The original panel appears to have a textured overlay that looks similar to leather. As far as I can tell the panel was made from carbon fiber over a plug and then the texture was bonded to the panel most likely using a vacuum bagging method. It is bonded so well that it may have been part of the layup process. I would like to duplicate the same look if possible. I am looking for some help regarding possible texture materials and procedures to provide a new panel with the original manufactures results.


Thanks,
Chris



Most (if not all) modern gliders use fiberglass as opposed to carbon fiber or aluminum for instrument panel construction. I have been told this is because fiberglass is less likely to act as a guillotine for your legs in a crash. I know from personal experience (as a witness) why this became a concern. Don't use carbon. The Schleicher panel blanks are cheap - unless you value your time at minimum wage or less.

When I redid my panel I made a CAD drawing of the layout and laser cut trial panels out of acrylic at a local shop, then cut the panel blank using an acrylic template and a router (the local shop wouldn't let me laser-cut fiberglass due to uncertainty about the resin and the resulting fumes). That was before Williams Soaring got their laser cutter. My recommendation is that you make a CAD (or drawing) file with the hole layout, laser cut an acrylic test panel (if you have access to a laser cutter) to check for fit and then send the file to Williams for one-stop shopping.

PM me if you'd like the CAD file I used.

Andy Blackburn
9B
  #7  
Old November 6th 18, 08:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

Andy, when I was laying out my ASW 24 panel many years ago (OK, over a quarter century ago), I wasn't just arranging paper cutouts on the blank panel to see what would fit. There were other consideration such as clearance behind the panel, minimum distance from the edges for structural integrity, minimum distance between two instruments for structural reasons as well as interference between them, obstruction of the top edge of the panel by the glare shield (I have a Streifeneder panel with higher knee cutouts and a three-flats--vs. rounded--cover), instruments that fit 57mm or 80 mm holes but had larger dimensions behind the panel (e.g., the Cambridge and ClearNav ADCs), switches and fuses, ELT annunciator, sightline behind the control stick, etc. And now we have the larger, non-standard panel displays mounted on stalks, in the panel, behind the panel, etc. Making sure everything fit was an iterative process to a certain extent. I cut the first hole, test fitted it, then proceeded, making adjustments as necessary.

Any quick thoughts to share with the group on how you dealt with these other issues? I assume that's what's meant by cutting a trial panel and testing for fit. I've changed my instrumentation a bit in the last few years so am thinking about a new panel. The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden
  #8  
Old November 6th 18, 09:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steve Leonard[_2_]
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 1:44:31 PM UTC-6, wrote:

The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden

That is where we step back from the Sawzall and go to the palm sander. :-) "That plastic case doesn't need to be that thick. I will just sand a little off of there." I have seen winter varios with two of the four installation tabs sanded off and that whole side of the case flush with the OD of the back part of the instrument. I have an L-Nav that had to get a top, back corner of the case "smooshed" a bit.

Yes, initially make from something cheap for test fitting if you can. And be aware of corner radius on the panel. Otherwise, be prepared to modify instruments.

PS: I bought a panel for our club 2-33 and the mounting screw pattern on the 57 mm cutouts does not match those on the FSG-71M I was going to install.. Grrr....

  #9  
Old November 6th 18, 09:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Posts: 518
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 11:44:31 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Andy, when I was laying out my ASW 24 panel many years ago (OK, over a quarter century ago), I wasn't just arranging paper cutouts on the blank panel to see what would fit. There were other consideration such as clearance behind the panel, minimum distance from the edges for structural integrity, minimum distance between two instruments for structural reasons as well as interference between them, obstruction of the top edge of the panel by the glare shield (I have a Streifeneder panel with higher knee cutouts and a three-flats--vs. rounded--cover), instruments that fit 57mm or 80 mm holes but had larger dimensions behind the panel (e.g., the Cambridge and ClearNav ADCs), switches and fuses, ELT annunciator, sightline behind the control stick, etc. And now we have the larger, non-standard panel displays mounted on stalks, in the panel, behind the panel, etc. Making sure everything fit was an iterative process to a certain extent. I cut the first hole, test fitted it, then proceeded, making adjustments as necessary.

Any quick thoughts to share with the group on how you dealt with these other issues? I assume that's what's meant by cutting a trial panel and testing for fit. I've changed my instrumentation a bit in the last few years so am thinking about a new panel. The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden


Chip,

I measured and modeled all the instruments in 2D - including the holes and the case cross-sections. I managed to arrange them such that they form a near-solid block (many of them touch cases to add stability). I also measured the backside of the panel because there is some curvature and wall thickness to account for, so I created a standoff buffer/border around the edge.

I taught myself to use AutoCAD as part of this exercise, so I did some simple checks to ensure that there was clearance along the length of each instrument. With some additional effort you can create a 3D model of the instrument panel and cavity as well as each instrument. I didn't find this necessary for the -27. A friend who did a panel for his Ventus used SolidWorks to make a full 3D model (Fusion 360 will allow you to do this without spending $4000 on software). It may help for specific situations though generally there isn't a significant constraint unless your instruments are super-deep.

Here's a link to the panel layout I did. You can see each instrument case is modeled in addition to the cutouts - as well as the panel backside offset.. I used very tight tolerances for the instrument holes - so much so that I had to do a little bit of sanding on some holes to fit the the instrument. Makes for a very clean installation - much better than you get using a standard hole cutter and suits my perfectionist streak.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YH...VONRIDR67sUJlY

Andy
  #10  
Old November 6th 18, 10:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 2:43:14 PM UTC-6, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 11:44:31 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Andy, when I was laying out my ASW 24 panel many years ago (OK, over a quarter century ago), I wasn't just arranging paper cutouts on the blank panel to see what would fit. There were other consideration such as clearance behind the panel, minimum distance from the edges for structural integrity, minimum distance between two instruments for structural reasons as well as interference between them, obstruction of the top edge of the panel by the glare shield (I have a Streifeneder panel with higher knee cutouts and a three-flats--vs. rounded--cover), instruments that fit 57mm or 80 mm holes but had larger dimensions behind the panel (e.g., the Cambridge and ClearNav ADCs), switches and fuses, ELT annunciator, sightline behind the control stick, etc. And now we have the larger, non-standard panel displays mounted on stalks, in the panel, behind the panel, etc. Making sure everything fit was an iterative process to a certain extent. I cut the first hole, test fitted it, then proceeded, making adjustments as necessary.

Any quick thoughts to share with the group on how you dealt with these other issues? I assume that's what's meant by cutting a trial panel and testing for fit. I've changed my instrumentation a bit in the last few years so am thinking about a new panel. The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden


Chip,

I measured and modeled all the instruments in 2D - including the holes and the case cross-sections. I managed to arrange them such that they form a near-solid block (many of them touch cases to add stability). I also measured the backside of the panel because there is some curvature and wall thickness to account for, so I created a standoff buffer/border around the edge.

I taught myself to use AutoCAD as part of this exercise, so I did some simple checks to ensure that there was clearance along the length of each instrument. With some additional effort you can create a 3D model of the instrument panel and cavity as well as each instrument. I didn't find this necessary for the -27. A friend who did a panel for his Ventus used SolidWorks to make a full 3D model (Fusion 360 will allow you to do this without spending $4000 on software). It may help for specific situations though generally there isn't a significant constraint unless your instruments are super-deep.

Here's a link to the panel layout I did. You can see each instrument case is modeled in addition to the cutouts - as well as the panel backside offset. I used very tight tolerances for the instrument holes - so much so that I had to do a little bit of sanding on some holes to fit the the instrument. Makes for a very clean installation - much better than you get using a standard hole cutter and suits my perfectionist streak.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YH...VONRIDR67sUJlY

Andy



Thank you all for your input and great advice,

The panel project is well under way with the exception of the surface texture. I have made a mold off of an existing retired 27 panel and plan to make a number of extras. This will be for future instrument upgrades as time marches on. The soaring instruments are changing at such a rapid rate I anticipate further upgrades every 5 to 10 years or so.

Using glass instead of carbon was a enlightening. I was not aware of the potential safety issues with a carbon panel. The surface texture will most likely be applied with a spray gun. Looking at my retired 27 panel, the surface texture sure looks like an overlay. Around the edges and especially the leg radius areas you can see the stretch marks from the overlay material. Before cutting any holes in the new panels, a prototype will be made with acrylic or aluminum for fit and function.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris
 




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