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ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 6th 18, 11:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

I measured and modeled all the instruments in 2D - including the holes and the case cross-sections. I managed to arrange them such that they form a near-solid block (many of them touch cases to add stability). I also measured the backside of the panel because there is some curvature and wall thickness to account for, so I created a standoff buffer/border around the edge.

I taught myself to use AutoCAD as part of this exercise, so I did some simple checks to ensure that there was clearance along the length of each instrument. With some additional effort you can create a 3D model of the instrument panel and cavity as well as each instrument. I didn't find this necessary for the -27. A friend who did a panel for his Ventus used SolidWorks to make a full 3D model (Fusion 360 will allow you to do this without spending $4000 on software). It may help for specific situations though generally there isn't a significant constraint unless your instruments are super-deep.

Here's a link to the panel layout I did. You can see each instrument case is modeled in addition to the cutouts - as well as the panel backside offset. I used very tight tolerances for the instrument holes - so much so that I had to do a little bit of sanding on some holes to fit the the instrument. Makes for a very clean installation - much better than you get using a standard hole cutter and suits my perfectionist streak.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YH...VONRIDR67sUJlY

Andy


Sweet! I expected no less from you.

Sorta like I did 27 years ago. In my workshop, I occasionally find one of the cardboard circle templates I used to draw around before I used my saber saw (rough work; e.g., ASI) or coping saw (fine work; e.g., the adjustment tab on my altimeter) to make the cutouts. Like you, I had to do a little sanding, too.

Of course, the next level of sophistication is "future proofing" your panel by building in the ability to accommodate a range of possible/likely instrument changes/upgrades. When I added the proprietary CAI sleeve/RAM mount for the Compaq 1550 handheld 20+ years ago, I'd cleverly left room for another 57mm instrument. So I plopped the CAI mount on the existing hole and moved the clock to the new hole I cut.

Technology marches on.

Chip Bearden
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  #12  
Old November 7th 18, 03:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Kuykendall
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Posts: 1,226
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

I'd suggest going down to the local flooring store and check out the textures on both sides of various linoleum products. You might find something quite similar to the one on the AS panel.
  #13  
Old November 7th 18, 03:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 911
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 11:44:31 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Andy, when I was laying out my ASW 24 panel many years ago (OK, over a quarter century ago), I wasn't just arranging paper cutouts on the blank panel to see what would fit. There were other consideration such as clearance behind the panel, minimum distance from the edges for structural integrity, minimum distance between two instruments for structural reasons as well as interference between them, obstruction of the top edge of the panel by the glare shield (I have a Streifeneder panel with higher knee cutouts and a three-flats--vs. rounded--cover), instruments that fit 57mm or 80 mm holes but had larger dimensions behind the panel (e.g., the Cambridge and ClearNav ADCs), switches and fuses, ELT annunciator, sightline behind the control stick, etc. And now we have the larger, non-standard panel displays mounted on stalks, in the panel, behind the panel, etc. Making sure everything fit was an iterative process to a certain extent. I cut the first hole, test fitted it, then proceeded, making adjustments as necessary.

Any quick thoughts to share with the group on how you dealt with these other issues? I assume that's what's meant by cutting a trial panel and testing for fit. I've changed my instrumentation a bit in the last few years so am thinking about a new panel. The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden


I'd suggest making up the layout you like in CAD, then have a piece of waste material (G10, acrylic, or whatever) cut to that plan. Then assemble all the actual instruments onto the test piece, hold it in place, and see if it all really fits. Then cut the edges right down close to the instruments and see if the test piece fits inside the real panel. This tests for clearance to the radius of the molded piece. Do not depend on the AS drawings if you are pushing things to the edge. It also allows you to locate the test piece (and therefore the CNC) to the real panel (which has no reliable center line and will be asymmetric to some extent).
  #14  
Old November 7th 18, 03:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 3,345
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

I've sanded a couple of instruments to make them fit into my panel...

On 11/6/2018 1:41 PM, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 1:44:31 PM UTC-6, wrote:

The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden

That is where we step back from the Sawzall and go to the palm sander. :-) "That plastic case doesn't need to be that thick. I will just sand a little off of there." I have seen winter varios with two of the four installation tabs sanded off and that whole side of the case flush with the OD of the back part of the instrument. I have an L-Nav that had to get a top, back corner of the case "smooshed" a bit.

Yes, initially make from something cheap for test fitting if you can. And be aware of corner radius on the panel. Otherwise, be prepared to modify instruments.

PS: I bought a panel for our club 2-33 and the mounting screw pattern on the 57 mm cutouts does not match those on the FSG-71M I was going to install. Grrr....


--
Dan, 5J
  #15  
Old November 7th 18, 03:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 3,345
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

You might try trunk paint on your panel.* It has a random texture and
then you can spray another color over the top.* I've also used wrinkle
paint.* It makes a nice texture.

On 11/6/2018 2:14 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 2:43:14 PM UTC-6, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 11:44:31 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Andy, when I was laying out my ASW 24 panel many years ago (OK, over a quarter century ago), I wasn't just arranging paper cutouts on the blank panel to see what would fit. There were other consideration such as clearance behind the panel, minimum distance from the edges for structural integrity, minimum distance between two instruments for structural reasons as well as interference between them, obstruction of the top edge of the panel by the glare shield (I have a Streifeneder panel with higher knee cutouts and a three-flats--vs. rounded--cover), instruments that fit 57mm or 80 mm holes but had larger dimensions behind the panel (e.g., the Cambridge and ClearNav ADCs), switches and fuses, ELT annunciator, sightline behind the control stick, etc. And now we have the larger, non-standard panel displays mounted on stalks, in the panel, behind the panel, etc. Making sure everything fit was an iterative process to a certain extent. I cut the first hole, test fitted it, then proceeded, making adjustments as necessary.

Any quick thoughts to share with the group on how you dealt with these other issues? I assume that's what's meant by cutting a trial panel and testing for fit. I've changed my instrumentation a bit in the last few years so am thinking about a new panel. The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden

Chip,

I measured and modeled all the instruments in 2D - including the holes and the case cross-sections. I managed to arrange them such that they form a near-solid block (many of them touch cases to add stability). I also measured the backside of the panel because there is some curvature and wall thickness to account for, so I created a standoff buffer/border around the edge.

I taught myself to use AutoCAD as part of this exercise, so I did some simple checks to ensure that there was clearance along the length of each instrument. With some additional effort you can create a 3D model of the instrument panel and cavity as well as each instrument. I didn't find this necessary for the -27. A friend who did a panel for his Ventus used SolidWorks to make a full 3D model (Fusion 360 will allow you to do this without spending $4000 on software). It may help for specific situations though generally there isn't a significant constraint unless your instruments are super-deep.

Here's a link to the panel layout I did. You can see each instrument case is modeled in addition to the cutouts - as well as the panel backside offset. I used very tight tolerances for the instrument holes - so much so that I had to do a little bit of sanding on some holes to fit the the instrument. Makes for a very clean installation - much better than you get using a standard hole cutter and suits my perfectionist streak.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YH...VONRIDR67sUJlY

Andy


Thank you all for your input and great advice,

The panel project is well under way with the exception of the surface texture. I have made a mold off of an existing retired 27 panel and plan to make a number of extras. This will be for future instrument upgrades as time marches on. The soaring instruments are changing at such a rapid rate I anticipate further upgrades every 5 to 10 years or so.

Using glass instead of carbon was a enlightening. I was not aware of the potential safety issues with a carbon panel. The surface texture will most likely be applied with a spray gun. Looking at my retired 27 panel, the surface texture sure looks like an overlay. Around the edges and especially the leg radius areas you can see the stretch marks from the overlay material. Before cutting any holes in the new panels, a prototype will be made with acrylic or aluminum for fit and function.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris


--
Dan, 5J

  #16  
Old November 7th 18, 10:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 446
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 12:26:16 AM UTC+2, wrote:
I am making a new instrument panel for my ASW27. The original panel appears to have a textured overlay that looks similar to leather. As far as I can tell the panel was made from carbon fiber over a plug and then the texture was bonded to the panel most likely using a vacuum bagging method. It is bonded so well that it may have been part of the layup process. I would like to duplicate the same look if possible. I am looking for some help regarding possible texture materials and procedures to provide a new panel with the original manufactures results.

Thanks,
Chris


Why not make flat surface panel instead of that horrible Schleicher texture straight from the 70's? Paint it with grey Nextel paint and you have a beautiful, modern looking panel. That how factories do it nowadays, it is easy to do yourself.
  #17  
Old November 7th 18, 02:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 1,780
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 4:14:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 2:43:14 PM UTC-6, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 11:44:31 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Andy, when I was laying out my ASW 24 panel many years ago (OK, over a quarter century ago), I wasn't just arranging paper cutouts on the blank panel to see what would fit. There were other consideration such as clearance behind the panel, minimum distance from the edges for structural integrity, minimum distance between two instruments for structural reasons as well as interference between them, obstruction of the top edge of the panel by the glare shield (I have a Streifeneder panel with higher knee cutouts and a three-flats--vs. rounded--cover), instruments that fit 57mm or 80 mm holes but had larger dimensions behind the panel (e.g., the Cambridge and ClearNav ADCs), switches and fuses, ELT annunciator, sightline behind the control stick, etc. And now we have the larger, non-standard panel displays mounted on stalks, in the panel, behind the panel, etc. Making sure everything fit was an iterative process to a certain extent. I cut the first hole, test fitted it, then proceeded, making adjustments as necessary.

Any quick thoughts to share with the group on how you dealt with these other issues? I assume that's what's meant by cutting a trial panel and testing for fit. I've changed my instrumentation a bit in the last few years so am thinking about a new panel. The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden


Chip,

I measured and modeled all the instruments in 2D - including the holes and the case cross-sections. I managed to arrange them such that they form a near-solid block (many of them touch cases to add stability). I also measured the backside of the panel because there is some curvature and wall thickness to account for, so I created a standoff buffer/border around the edge.

I taught myself to use AutoCAD as part of this exercise, so I did some simple checks to ensure that there was clearance along the length of each instrument. With some additional effort you can create a 3D model of the instrument panel and cavity as well as each instrument. I didn't find this necessary for the -27. A friend who did a panel for his Ventus used SolidWorks to make a full 3D model (Fusion 360 will allow you to do this without spending $4000 on software). It may help for specific situations though generally there isn't a significant constraint unless your instruments are super-deep.

Here's a link to the panel layout I did. You can see each instrument case is modeled in addition to the cutouts - as well as the panel backside offset. I used very tight tolerances for the instrument holes - so much so that I had to do a little bit of sanding on some holes to fit the the instrument. Makes for a very clean installation - much better than you get using a standard hole cutter and suits my perfectionist streak.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YH...VONRIDR67sUJlY

Andy



Thank you all for your input and great advice,

The panel project is well under way with the exception of the surface texture. I have made a mold off of an existing retired 27 panel and plan to make a number of extras. This will be for future instrument upgrades as time marches on. The soaring instruments are changing at such a rapid rate I anticipate further upgrades every 5 to 10 years or so.

Using glass instead of carbon was a enlightening. I was not aware of the potential safety issues with a carbon panel. The surface texture will most likely be applied with a spray gun. Looking at my retired 27 panel, the surface texture sure looks like an overlay. Around the edges and especially the leg radius areas you can see the stretch marks from the overlay material.. Before cutting any holes in the new panels, a prototype will be made with acrylic or aluminum for fit and function.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris


I have refinished modified or repaired panels by surfacing with spray filler and sanding smooth and flat to a 220 finish. Then I spray with Rustoleum black texture paint. When that has dried I overcoat with SEM trim black satin paint. Texture hides the tiny flaws and gives a nice appearance.
FWIW
UH
  #18  
Old November 7th 18, 04:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,308
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Wednesday, November 7, 2018 at 8:58:35 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Rustoleum black texture paint.... hides the tiny flaws...


And some not-so-tiny ;-)
  #19  
Old November 7th 18, 05:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,039
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 12:43:14 PM UTC-8, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 11:44:31 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Andy, when I was laying out my ASW 24 panel many years ago (OK, over a quarter century ago), I wasn't just arranging paper cutouts on the blank panel to see what would fit. There were other consideration such as clearance behind the panel, minimum distance from the edges for structural integrity, minimum distance between two instruments for structural reasons as well as interference between them, obstruction of the top edge of the panel by the glare shield (I have a Streifeneder panel with higher knee cutouts and a three-flats--vs. rounded--cover), instruments that fit 57mm or 80 mm holes but had larger dimensions behind the panel (e.g., the Cambridge and ClearNav ADCs), switches and fuses, ELT annunciator, sightline behind the control stick, etc. And now we have the larger, non-standard panel displays mounted on stalks, in the panel, behind the panel, etc. Making sure everything fit was an iterative process to a certain extent. I cut the first hole, test fitted it, then proceeded, making adjustments as necessary.

Any quick thoughts to share with the group on how you dealt with these other issues? I assume that's what's meant by cutting a trial panel and testing for fit. I've changed my instrumentation a bit in the last few years so am thinking about a new panel. The idea of unpacking a brand new, beautifully cut panel and discovering my favorite instrument doesn't clear something by a few mm is daunting.

Chip Bearden


Chip,

I measured and modeled all the instruments in 2D - including the holes and the case cross-sections. I managed to arrange them such that they form a near-solid block (many of them touch cases to add stability). I also measured the backside of the panel because there is some curvature and wall thickness to account for, so I created a standoff buffer/border around the edge.

I taught myself to use AutoCAD as part of this exercise, so I did some simple checks to ensure that there was clearance along the length of each instrument. With some additional effort you can create a 3D model of the instrument panel and cavity as well as each instrument. I didn't find this necessary for the -27. A friend who did a panel for his Ventus used SolidWorks to make a full 3D model (Fusion 360 will allow you to do this without spending $4000 on software). It may help for specific situations though generally there isn't a significant constraint unless your instruments are super-deep.

Here's a link to the panel layout I did. You can see each instrument case is modeled in addition to the cutouts - as well as the panel backside offset. I used very tight tolerances for the instrument holes - so much so that I had to do a little bit of sanding on some holes to fit the the instrument. Makes for a very clean installation - much better than you get using a standard hole cutter and suits my perfectionist streak.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YH...VONRIDR67sUJlY

Andy


I paid $500 to have someone else professionally do it.
  #20  
Old November 7th 18, 05:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 451
Default ASW 27 Instrument Panel Texture

Why not make flat surface panel instead of that horrible Schleicher texture straight from the 70's?

How about a Win 10 look? Make the panel from smoked Lexan (or something a little more forgiving in a crash) for that transparent effect. Add some strategically placed behind-the-panel LEDs and you could see your instruments--ALL of them, tubing, wiring, connectors, etc.

Chip Bearden
 




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