What Used Plane For First Time Purchase?

Grumman Tiger.

It will cruise right up there with older nonturbo arrows and nonturbo
older mooneys..

Only the tiger is fixed gear, fixed prop, and the other two are retracts.

Excellent vis. Canopy can open in flight for ventilation, as well as
full open on the ground. Only downside is when it rains and you have to
exit.

I've taken one on several cross countries.. flown 9 hours in one day..
There are several mods out there with the cowl, extended range fuel, etc.

Runner up? A Grumman Cheetah.. 30 less hp. ALmost the same plane.

Dave

CareBear wrote:
All:

I am still pondering whether to buy an airplane or continue renting.
Renting presents a few problems: availability being the main one. I
mentioned in a previous post that there was an opportunity to buy a 1980
Beech Sundowner but since then the owner decided not to sell (thanks B A R R
Y for the write-up). Here are my thoughts on what I "think" I want to
purchase should it be decided to go that route.

I would prefer a plane that had from 180 to 200hp (not ready for complex or
retract yet). High wing or low wing doesn't really matter (I trained in a
Cessna 152). I will be getting checked out in the Cessna 172 real soon. I
plan on using the plane to get IFR certified and keep it 2-4 years.

Mission....I plan on making several local (less than 50nm) and at least 5 xc
flights (from 100 to 500nm) per year. I will have the wife and a couple of
grandchildren (small in size). Definitely need at least 4 seats. The more
roomier the better.

I don't know what brand or model is the safest, best to buy, easiest to
handle, less troublesome, etc. One guy told me to get a Cessna 172 only for
the 1976 to 1979 models. He didn't offer an explanation as to why only
these models. Another guy said get a Piper Warrior.

Frankly, I don't know what to get. As a new pilot (80-100hrs) I am not all
familiar with the world of airplanes, so therefore I solicit your advice and
opinions.

Almost forgot...would be willing to spend up to $70,000 on the right plane.

Thanks,

I am still pondering whether to buy an airplane or continue renting.

Two other options: Flying club and partnership. These give you the
benefits of owning (access, no minimum charges, known maintanance, etc)
and help dilute the disadvantages and costs. You also get to know more
pilots.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Owning will probably turn out to be more expensive than renting unless
you have time to fly a lot.

Set aside 10% of the purchase price for fixup costs on any used
airplane you buy. there will be things that the previous owner
thought were OK but you will want to fix/replace.

Look for current avionics. The value of new avionics in a used
airplane runs only about half the installed cost.

Get one that your local mechanics know how to maintain.

Cessnas and Pipers are numerous enough that parts are readily
available. Beech parts are available too, but tend to be a lot more
expensive.

Seriously consider a partnership if you can find one, but make sure
that all members are active, and have a knowledgeable mechanic review
the aircraft logbooks (this goes for anything you buy).

Don't skimp on the pre-purchase inspection. Have it done by an
independent shop.

Paul kgyy wrote:
Don't skimp on the pre-purchase inspection. Have it
done by an independent shop.

Do your homework and find a REALLY reputable mechanic to do a pre-buy
inspection, and if possible, familiarize YOURSELF with obvious things
and be present at the pre-buy inspection, looking over their shoulders.
I trusted my pre-buy inspection, done by an independent mechanic/shop.
They found nothing wrong -- that should have been the first clue ...
there's always *something* to be found. After buying it, we discovered
that the inboard wing ribs were cracked on both sides, the inboard hinge
on the flaps on both sides had been attached with Home Depot rivets, and
the flap skin beneath those hinges on both sides had 1.5-inch cracks.
There was extensive corrosion behind the switches/fuses. As you can well
imagine, that was an exten$ive repair. I would not have bought the
airplane had I known. That pre-buy inspection was a joke.

Hey CareBear,

I just went through the same process, and within the last year
Purchased a '67 Cherokee 140. Lessons from experience-

1. Prepurchase Inspection. No question, no doubts, if the 'deal of
the year' will pass you buy because there is no time, walk away. I
walked away from two lemons before settling on my current bird.
2. Be wary of nice radio panels/paint jobs. They cost a fortune when
factored into the purchase price of the bird, they're not particularly
relevant. More fundamentally though, Every feature and system you add
to a plane will cost money to maintain when it breaks... The fewer
systems you have in your plane, the fewer things you'll need to worry
about to keep your bird running 'perfect' (and believe me, as soon as
one thing goes inop, it'll bug you like a splinter until you have it
fixed).
3. When it comes to features, know the difference between 'nice to
have' and '_really_ makes life easier for the type of flying I do'.
Avoid the former, invest in the latter.
4. Interior condition is far more important than exterior condition.
5. No matter how well you budget, how much information you get, and
how much planning you do, It WILL be more expensive than you predict.
Be ready for it.
6. Beware of mission creep... I'm already feeling it. Your needs will
change as you become a better pilot.
7. There is no more damning sensation for an aircraft owner than the
feeling of regret.

That's really about it. As for specific models - fly any plane before
you buy (obviously). Grumman's are great, fast, nice looking birds...
but if you're over 6'2 (or you ever plan on carrying someone who is)
don't even think about it. Cessna's are the gold standard, but you
pay a premium because of it. I am partial to Pipers, which tend to be
slightly cheaper than Cessna's for equivolent performance (and the
PA-28 series tends to be slightly cheaper to maintain)... That said,
this is PURELY an issue of personal preference. All aircraft have
quirks and design issues you'll work around, the trick is finding an
aircraft whose quirks annoy you the least (or that you like). Buying
an airplane is kinda like finding a human companion in that regard.

I hope none of this scares you off from aircraft ownership. Its a
beautiful thing. The love between an aircraft owner and his bird is
something that is hard to explain to an outsider. Its a pain in the
ass... more demanding than you can imagine. But like any good love
affair- utterly worth it in every regard if you play your cards right.

-Scott

In article .com,
EridanMan wrote:

4. Interior condition is far more important than exterior condition.

um, it doesn't fly any better with a nice leather interior.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Not nice leather seats, no... but pilot's do tend to fly better when
they're not falling through the seat I hate to admit, but I have
first hand experience with this one.

Either way, considering that I prefer to spend more time sitting in my
bird than looking at her, I prefer interior condition to exterior
beauty. Just my personal preference.

In article .com,
EridanMan wrote:

Not nice leather seats, no... but pilot's do tend to fly better when
they're not falling through the seat I hate to admit, but I have
first hand experience with this one.

well, ok. I was starting with the assumption that the interior and exterior
are airworthy.

Either way, considering that I prefer to spend more time sitting in my
bird than looking at her, I prefer interior condition to exterior
beauty. Just my personal preference.

Me to. But consider that the interior is something us owners get to
improve ourselves and is far less expensive than painting the airplane.
I'd rather buy an airplane was a tired interior that had an excellent
paint job (which would include complete stripping and corrosion repair)
than an airplane with a perfect interior and a tired paint job (with
who knows what corrosion lurking there).

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Bob Noel wrote:
I'd rather buy an airplane was a tired interior that had an excellent
paint job (which would include complete stripping and corrosion repair)
than an airplane with a perfect interior and a tired paint job (with
who knows what corrosion lurking there).

The whole airplane *and its logbooks* tells a story. A buyer shouldn't
make any assumptions about corrosion based on new paint. There's no
substitute for a very thorough pre-buy inspection, with or without new
paint or new interior. The condition of the exterior/interior is *one*
indication of what kind of life/care it has had. A brand new, recently
painted exterior with an old, tired-and-tattered interior tells one
story; paint that was done 15 years ago that still looks new with an
old-but-clean, well-maintained interior tells another. Up to you and the
pre-buy mechanic to read the logs, inspect the plane, and draw your own
conclusions about what kind of care it has had, how it was used, and
what you'll want/need to do if you buy it.

I bought a Cherokee 180 for my first plane. It treated me well and would
recomend it to any new pilot. It had a usefull load of 1100 lbs. and would
cruise 124 knots tas.

"CareBear" wrote in message
...
All:

I am still pondering whether to buy an airplane or continue renting.
Renting presents a few problems: availability being the main one. I
mentioned in a previous post that there was an opportunity to buy a 1980
Beech Sundowner but since then the owner decided not to sell (thanks B A R
R Y for the write-up). Here are my thoughts on what I "think" I want to
purchase should it be decided to go that route.

I would prefer a plane that had from 180 to 200hp (not ready for complex
or retract yet). High wing or low wing doesn't really matter (I trained
in a Cessna 152). I will be getting checked out in the Cessna 172 real
soon. I plan on using the plane to get IFR certified and keep it 2-4
years.

Mission....I plan on making several local (less than 50nm) and at least 5
xc flights (from 100 to 500nm) per year. I will have the wife and a
couple of grandchildren (small in size). Definitely need at least 4
seats. The more roomier the better.

I don't know what brand or model is the safest, best to buy, easiest to
handle, less troublesome, etc. One guy told me to get a Cessna 172 only
for the 1976 to 1979 models. He didn't offer an explanation as to why
only these models. Another guy said get a Piper Warrior.

Frankly, I don't know what to get. As a new pilot (80-100hrs) I am not
all familiar with the world of airplanes, so therefore I solicit your
advice and opinions.

Almost forgot...would be willing to spend up to $70,000 on the right
plane.

Thanks,

--
CareBear