Two green, no red, one in the mirror....(long)

I thought I'd share a story with you. I have posted a few things here, and
really enjoyed the information that people share on these groups.

Some background: I'm currently working on my ME rating, and was out with my
instructor polishing up some maneuvers. I have about 12 to 14 hours in a
Seminole, and have been working on a VFR ME rating (the IFR ME rating will
be later).

So yesterday, my instructor and I headed out on a really nice Pacific NW
day (decent ceilings, great visibility and temps in the 40s at the surface).
We were planning on doing a few maneuvers, a Vmc demo or two, single engine
failure procedures, etc. We also planned on practicing simulated engine
failures in the pattern. All of this was to get ready for my upcoming ME
check ride.

I completed the pre-flight, and we didn't have any issues on run up. All
systems appeared normal, and working great. On our take-off roll, we got an
alternator warning. We aborted the take off, ran through the check lists,
reset the alternator, and the problem seemed to go away. (The alternator
problem was not our problem later on, and is probably not even related to
the problem we encountered).

So we finally got going, headed out to a practice area and began our
maneuvers. Everything was going fairly well, Vmcs looked decent, engine
failure procedures were looking better, etc. We were close to the airport
we were planning on doing pattern work, but we were above 5000AGL, so my
instructor asked me to do an emergency decent. For those unfamiliar with
it, the procedure is to bring the gear down, throttles to idle, props full
forward, and start a 45 deg descending turn while maintaining around 140kts.
I extended the gear (below the required 140), started to see the lights
turning green, and started the procedure. The lights normally all light
within a second of each other. Both the instructor and I notice the right
main light was not lit. We stopped the emergency decent, and reconfigured
to retract the gear. After a couple of attempts to cycle the gear, and swap
gear light bulbs, we determined that indeed, we were not getting a positive
lock indication on the right main gear. We even tried the emergency gear
extension, with the same results.

So at this point, we decided to head back to our home field and get some
help.While heading back we are both trying to figure out what might be
causing the problem. We are both thinking it might be as simple as the gear
lock switch, or as complicated as a gear stuck in transit.

The tower at Boeing Field allowed us to do a fly by, and was able to tell us
that the gear was down. They of course couldn't determine if it was locked
or not, but at least we know that it seems to be extending. We then left
the airport and headed out west to do more troubleshooting, and to call our
FBO mechanics. While I am flying a small circuit over the Olympic Peninsula,
my instructor talked on his cell phone to the FBO's maintenance gang. We
tried a bunch of variables. Extending the gear while in a turn, pulling
circuit breakers to reset the system then extending it, you name it, we
tried it. We spent over an hour trying to sort it out. Finally we arrived
at the point were we've burned off some of our extra fuel (now we only have
around 20 gals/ side) and our daylight is beginning to go. We decide that
the problem can't be fixed from inside the cockpit, and we'll just have to
hope that the issue is just the lock switch.

Remarkably both my instructor an I stayed pretty calm about the whole thing.
We get set up for our upcoming emergency landing by discussing who will do
what if the gear collapses (since he is flying, he would cut the mixtures,
I'd get the fuel shut-offs, mags, alts, and master). We remove our knee
boards, remove the decorative "emergency exit" handle cover, and locate the
fire extinguisher.

We did one more fly by of the tower, and they once again confirmed that the
gear was down. We went around again, declared our emergency, waited for a
767 to land, and went in. The Boeing Field fire department was ready and
waiting, which re-assured us if the worst happened, they would be there in
seconds.

The landing went extremely well. My instructor managed to hold the plane at
stall, and set it down as gently as was possible on the left gear first.
Lucky for us the right gear was locked, or at least held long enough for us
to land, taxi off the runway, and park. (Last time I checked the airplane is
in for determination of the problem).

It was an excellent learning experience, with the best outcome imaginable. I
know more about the Seminole's landing gear than I ever did before. I also
learned that keeping a cool head during a potential emergency will let you
clearly think about problems and most importantly-- keep flying the plane.
It can be distracting troubleshooting, flying and talking on the radio at
once. Keeping things in perspective and working as a team helped keep
everything manageable. The FBO's maintenance guys, the Boeing Fire
department and the Boeing tower also were key in keeping things manageable
and as safe as possible.

I definitely have to say, it was one of my most useful flights.

Len
PPSEL, working on that ME.

reading stuff like yours is why i do the net groups. thanks for posting
that. would there have been any sense to "bumping" it on the runway??
planning not to put all the weight on it and just kinda bumping it then
pulling up to do another circuit with whatever new info you just
gained??


dan....oh, by the way...sounds like y'all did just right.

houstondan wrote:
reading stuff like yours is why i do the net groups. thanks for posting
that. would there have been any sense to "bumping" it on the runway??
planning not to put all the weight on it and just kinda bumping it then
pulling up to do another circuit with whatever new info you just
gained??


And what would that tell you. Frankly, unless there's something dangerous
(like something in the way on the runway), it's probably safer to continue
the landing and take the possible collapse. A gingerly executed landing
is going to be better than bumping things and taking off... I've seen
a plane land without the nosegear and I've seen one land without one of the
mains. While the first yielded a bunch of sparks and the second caused the
plane to go off into the dirt, both pilots walked away uninjured and without
too much damange to the plane either.

I definitely have to say, it was one of my most useful flights.

This is what I like about pilots. After an experience like this, 97% of the
population would be screaming "Never again!" -- and would probably never set
foot on an airport again.

Pilots, on the other hand, just say "Hmmm...that was a valuable learning
experience..."

Great story -- thanks for sharing it!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
I definitely have to say, it was one of my most useful flights.


This is what I like about pilots. After an experience like this, 97% of the
population would be screaming "Never again!" -- and would probably never set
foot on an airport again.

Pilots, on the other hand, just say "Hmmm...that was a valuable learning
experience..."

Great story -- thanks for sharing it!

Interesting observation, Jay. I think you are correct about that. Pilots have a
different perspective on taking risks, and are more analytical than emotional
about accident reports. Perhaps that's a trait that led us to become pilots, or
perhaps the additional knowledge we share gives us more information to analyze.

So, are pilots also correspondingly analytical and unemotional when faced with
accident reports from outside aviation? Say, a boating accident, or a
farm-tractor accident, or a fill in the activity accident? Just musing, when
I'm supposed to be working. :-)

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
"Len" wrote:


The landing went extremely well. My instructor managed to hold the plane at
stall, and set it down as gently as was possible on the left gear first.
Lucky for us the right gear was locked, or at least held long enough for us
to land, taxi off the runway, and park.


Assuming the gear light remained red, did you consider
shutting down without taxiing off the runway? I'd feel
awfully stupid if the gear collapsed due to the side load as
I turned off the runway with the engines turning. What
about shutting down, inspecting/bracing the gear, then
getting a tow? I don't mean to second guess a successful
result, but I'm interested in your thought processes.

"It is possible to fly without motors, but not without knowledge and skill."
Wilbur Wright

Just a bit of clarification. We didn't have the red "gear unsafe light".
We only had two green lock lights. Part of the centerline check is the
'Three green lock lights, no red Gear Warning, and look in a mirror for
the nose gear'.

I agree with you, It probably would have been smarter to stop on the
runway or roll off on one of the high speed exit ramps, and then
shutdown to make sure the lock was engaged. I guess at that point we
didn't consider it, or figured if it could handle its share of the
3700lbs load on landing it would be alright.

In retrospect, I've been analyzing the landing gear system. I think the
fact that we didn't get the gear warning horn and the red gear warning
light was actually an indication that the gear was down. According to
the manual (which I'd like to confirm with the maintenance guys), "If
the gear is neither in the full up or full down position, a red WARN
GEAR UNSAFE annunciator at the top of the panel illuminates". If we
didn't have the red light, then the gear was down.

Oddly enough, I saw on the news that a pilot in Florida had the same
problem with his twin engine Cessna, however in his case the gear
collapsed. In the video he did an excellent job in controlling the
airplane, minimizing the damage-- including killing the engine on
touchdown. It even looks like he managed to avoid a prop strike. Check
out http://www.nbc6.net/news/4175769/detail.html

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
houstondan wrote:
reading stuff like yours is why i do the net groups. thanks for posting
that. would there have been any sense to "bumping" it on the runway??
planning not to put all the weight on it and just kinda bumping it then
pulling up to do another circuit with whatever new info you just
gained??


And what would that tell you. Frankly, unless there's something
dangerous
(like something in the way on the runway), it's probably safer to continue
the landing and take the possible collapse. A gingerly executed landing
is going to be better than bumping things and taking off... I've seen
a plane land without the nosegear and I've seen one land without one of
the
mains. While the first yielded a bunch of sparks and the second caused
the
plane to go off into the dirt, both pilots walked away uninjured and
without
too much damange to the plane either.

Half-way through the post, I thought Len was involved in this (with video):

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/u...?storyid=32215

from a day or so ago. Pretty standard 1-main-up landing.

Len writes:


In retrospect, I've been analyzing the landing gear system. I think the fact
that we didn't get the gear warning horn and the red gear warning light was
actually an indication that the gear was down. According to the manual
(which I'd like to confirm with the maintenance guys), "If the gear is
neither in the full up or full down position, a red WARN GEAR UNSAFE
annunciator at the top of the panel illuminates". If we didn't have the red
light, then the gear was down.

Isn't there a difference between 'full down' and locked? I guess I don't
understand the significance of the lack of the red warning light other than
indicating that you _might_ just have a faulty switch.

dan.

--
PGP key at http://www.longhands.org/drg-pgp.txt Key Id:0x507D93DF

Dave Butler wrote:

Interesting observation, Jay. I think you are correct about that.
Pilots have a
different perspective on taking risks, and are more analytical than
emotional
about accident reports. Perhaps that's a trait that led us to become
pilots, or
perhaps the additional knowledge we share gives us more information
to analyze.

I think that's applicable to anyone that bothers to analyze the risks
associated with a particular endeavor (for example motorcycling,
skydiving and skiing). That said, Jay has a point. Of the people I've
encountered in those particular activities, there is a large percentage
that do not bother to consider all of the risks and take an "it won't
happen to me" approach. Those are the ones that say, "Never again!"
after a mishap. The rest (a minority, in my opinion) just chalk it up
as a valuable learning experience.

I know several former pilots that hung up their wings after a
particularly frightening experience. They gained a sudden realization
of the risks involved with their activity and weren't prepared to deal
with it.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Great post Len. Glad to hear that it worked out the way it did. Sounds
like you guys kept your cool, kept flying the plane, etc. Thanks for
posting.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Student Arrow Buyer

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

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