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Questions about ram air emergency parachutes



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 11th 17, 07:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS
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Posts: 1,384
Default Questions about ram air emergency parachutes

(Moved from the parachute comfort thread)

Uli asked:
Not wanting to derail this thread any further (if that is even possible) but realistically, how difficult is it to use a ram-air chute vs. a round canopy? I have only three static line jumps under a military style Pioneer L-10 and the landings were - shall we say - harsh and firm!
My current shut is nearing its service life and I am looking for options.

Uli
'AS'

Uli et al, from my limited experience:
Before selling a ram-air chute, Allen Silver required proof that a buyer can operate one. At the time I had over 100 hours of paraglider, which is just a high aspect ratio ram-air wing, but thought it best to log a couple of square chute jumps anyway.
Both of those jumps were similar to ye olde static line jumps with a round chute: With a square, the instructor removes the pilot chute and holds on to it, then you exit the plane. Spoils the fun a bit as there is no real free fall.
Both of my jumps included a pattern and a stand-up landing in front of the other instructor. The second jump also included a spiral dive to burn off altitude. afterwards I was told that was a bad idea as the automatic reserve deployment system could have sensed free fall and dumped the main, deployed the reserve. So if you make a square chute jump on rental gear don't do that!
That second landing, I was able to land in front of the instructor in the LZ, turn around then dump the parachute on the ground in front of me. This is a good technique if there is wind, as you can step/walk/run towards the chute to prevent being dragged. Try that with a round chute.
In 20 round chute jumps I did a few good stand-up landings, but they weren't pretty. There is nowhere near the control that is available with a square chute. No landing pattern, not as much choice of where to land. Round chutes are awful to land in more than 10MPH of wind. Chukar luckily landed on a light pole in Reno.
Square chutes are easy to fly and land. When first opened, an emergency chute is trimmed hands off to minimum sink. After the toggles are released, hands off trim is at Max L/D.
Mine is a Performance Designs PD235. The 3.5:1 glide ratio isn't much worse than my first hang glider!
Jim
  #2  
Old June 12th 17, 02:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Posts: 653
Default Questions about ram air emergency parachutes

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 2:18:47 PM UTC-4, JS wrote:
(Moved from the parachute comfort thread)

Uli asked:
Not wanting to derail this thread any further (if that is even possible) but realistically, how difficult is it to use a ram-air chute vs. a round canopy? I have only three static line jumps under a military style Pioneer L-10 and the landings were - shall we say - harsh and firm!
My current shut is nearing its service life and I am looking for options.

Uli
'AS'

Uli et al, from my limited experience:
Before selling a ram-air chute, Allen Silver required proof that a buyer can operate one. At the time I had over 100 hours of paraglider, which is just a high aspect ratio ram-air wing, but thought it best to log a couple of square chute jumps anyway.
Both of those jumps were similar to ye olde static line jumps with a round chute: With a square, the instructor removes the pilot chute and holds on to it, then you exit the plane. Spoils the fun a bit as there is no real free fall.
Both of my jumps included a pattern and a stand-up landing in front of the other instructor. The second jump also included a spiral dive to burn off altitude. afterwards I was told that was a bad idea as the automatic reserve deployment system could have sensed free fall and dumped the main, deployed the reserve. So if you make a square chute jump on rental gear don't do that!
That second landing, I was able to land in front of the instructor in the LZ, turn around then dump the parachute on the ground in front of me. This is a good technique if there is wind, as you can step/walk/run towards the chute to prevent being dragged. Try that with a round chute.
In 20 round chute jumps I did a few good stand-up landings, but they weren't pretty. There is nowhere near the control that is available with a square chute. No landing pattern, not as much choice of where to land. Round chutes are awful to land in more than 10MPH of wind. Chukar luckily landed on a light pole in Reno.
Square chutes are easy to fly and land. When first opened, an emergency chute is trimmed hands off to minimum sink. After the toggles are released, hands off trim is at Max L/D.
Mine is a Performance Designs PD235. The 3.5:1 glide ratio isn't much worse than my first hang glider!
Jim


Jim - thanks, that was the type of info I was looking for. Trust me, after bailing successfully out of a disabled glider, I am not looking for a new free-falling, flying or learning experience, like taming a chute, so if it flies hands-off, all the better.

Uli
'AS'
  #3  
Old June 13th 17, 07:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 107
Default Questions about ram air emergency parachutes

Uli, as it was explained to me round canopies are more forgiving of poor body position when deploying. If you are using a parachute for sport jumping the ram air 'chute is the only way to go, but for an emergency 'chute a novice user will have a better chance of getting a good deployment with the round canopy.
I'd ask your local rigger what they know, don't ask pilots what they "think".

-Doug
  #4  
Old June 13th 17, 08:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 478
Default Questions about ram air emergency parachutes

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 2:46:55 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Uli, as it was explained to me round canopies are more forgiving of poor body position when deploying. If you are using a parachute for sport jumping the ram air 'chute is the only way to go, but for an emergency 'chute a novice user will have a better chance of getting a good deployment with the round canopy.
I'd ask your local rigger what they know, don't ask pilots what they "think".

-Doug


Not true. Lots of unstable ram air deployments with student skydivers every day. And in a real ugly deployment that results in a horseshoe malfunction(pilot chute entangled with jumper) a round has a lower chance of opening.. Top of round reserve is restrained by the pilotchute and bridle going back to the jumper. Ram air reserves are packed in a bag that is not attached to the reserve. This allows the pilot chute to separate freeing the reserve to open. The only thing rounds are better for is saving a few bucks and nowadays buying new the difference isn't that much.
 




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