Contact Approach

Not to be pessimistic, where in my FAA ATC bible does it say "official
source"?. Available to ATC may be just a phone call away. I passed a CBI
based ASOS test at an FCT and was qualified to disseminate weather if the
ASOS failed. The only qualifications I needed after the test was to send in
an observation every quarter to the NWS. So what makes me any more
qualified than a guy who actually went to school for the weather
certification. I only ask this question because it was asked of me by a
long time ATC instructor. Would a PIREP be good enough?

oneatcer

"Newps" wrote in message
...
It must be an official source and available to ATC. Your buddy the line
boy at the FBO who passed a weather observers test 8 years ago does not
qualify.



wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the reported weather has to be available to ATC
in some fashion, but I'm not absolutely positive. One of our resident
ATC guys will know, for sure.



On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:36:34 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:


wrote:

ASOS, AWOS, or a qualified weather observer, if I'm not mistaken.

I guess the next question is, "reported to whom?".

Let's say for example my FBO has a certified weather observer on staff.
I
call up on unicom, ask for the weather, and am told it's 5000 broken and
2
miles. Does that count as "reported"? When I ask ATC for a contact
approach, they won't have that observation. Do I just tell the
controller
that I've got a report from the FBO?

Do I just tell the controller that I've got a report from the FBO?

Sure, why not? As a controller I have to disseminate PIREPs (which are
considered valid), why shouldn't I believe you that a pilot at an FBO
reported the weather as you said? The other requirement for clearing an
aircraft for a contact approach is that the airport has a published
instrument approach. If the airport I am working at is reporting 100/ 1/2
and your airport of intended landing has mins of 4000/3, do I clear you/or
not for the published approach when you give me a PIREP of CAVU? I'm not
trying to be antagonistic, but I'd like the true answer too.

oneatcer

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
wrote:
ASOS, AWOS, or a qualified weather observer, if I'm not mistaken.

I guess the next question is, "reported to whom?".

Let's say for example my FBO has a certified weather observer on staff. I
call up on unicom, ask for the weather, and am told it's 5000 broken and 2
miles. Does that count as "reported"? When I ask ATC for a contact
approach, they won't have that observation. Do I just tell the controller
that I've got a report from the FBO?

My book say PIREPs are acceptable for the fact that I have to disseminate
them. Controllers can make a ground vis report. AWOS/ASOS is ground vis.
METARs 45 minutes old will suffice due to the requirements of issuing a new
METAR when the vis changes by a reportable value. And if my memory serves
me right, that is +/- 1/4 mile when it gets down around 1 mile. Also, I say
it doesn't have to be an "absolutely certified weather observer", if that
was the case there would be no such thing as a contact approach. That's
my take on it, any ideas from you pilots?

oneatcer

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

"raphaël langumier" wrote in message
...
Yes,

Ground visibility should be at least 1 SM and the pilot have to request
the contact approach.
Raf


The AIM says that, to request the contact approach, the pilot must have
one
mile *flight* visibility. For ATC to approve the request, the *reported*
*ground* visibility must be one mile.

The question is really how literally that "reported ground visibility"
rule
is used. Is a PIREP acceptable? Are conditions observed five miles away
by
a certified human weather observer acceptable? Can any tower controller
at
the field make an acceptable report? Is the AWOS/ASOS observation "ground
visibility"? Will a METAR report 45 minutes old suffice? Or must it
absolutely be a certified weather observer on the field reporting current
conditions to whoever calls on the landline? Or what?

Stan

"oneatcer" wrote in message
...

Reported by whom or what?


Ground visibility is prevailing horizontal visibility near the earth's
surface as reported by the United States National Weather Service or an
accredited observer. The accredited observer can be a Federally commissioned
weather observing system.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

I guess the next question is, "reported to whom?".


To ATC.



Let's say for example my FBO has a certified weather observer on staff. I
call up on unicom, ask for the weather, and am told it's 5000 broken and 2
miles. Does that count as "reported"? When I ask ATC for a contact
approach, they won't have that observation. Do I just tell the controller
that I've got a report from the FBO?


If your FBO has a certified weather observer on staff ATC will have that
observation.

"oneatcer" wrote in message
...

Not to be pessimistic, where in my FAA ATC bible does it say "official
source"?


FAAO 7110.65, para 7-4-6.b. says, "The reported ground visibility is at
least 1 statute mile." The Pilot/Controller Glossary and FAR Part 1 both
define Ground Visibility as "Prevailing horizontal visibility near the
earth's surface as reported by the United States National Weather Service or
an accredited observer."



Available to ATC may be just a phone call away. I passed a CBI
based ASOS test at an FCT and was qualified to disseminate weather if the
ASOS failed. The only qualifications I needed after the test was to send
in an observation every quarter to the NWS. So what makes me any more
qualified than a guy who actually went to school for the weather
certification.


Nothing.



I only ask this question because it was asked of me by a
long time ATC instructor. Would a PIREP be good enough?


No.

"Stan Prevost" wrote in message
...

The question is really how literally that "reported ground visibility"
rule is used. Is a PIREP acceptable?


No. Ground visibility is determined by sighting objects a known distance
away. A PIREP is just a guess, and many pilots are very bad at guessing
distance.



Are conditions observed five miles
away by a certified human weather observer acceptable?


No.



Can any tower
controller at the field make an acceptable report?


If the controller is the accredited weather observer, then yes. Being
certified to make tower visibility observations is not sufficient.



Is the AWOS/ASOS observation "ground visibility"?


Yes.



Will a METAR report 45 minutes old suffice?


Yes, if it hasn't been superceded by a SPECI.

"oneatcer" wrote in message
...

Also, I say it doesn't have to be an "absolutely certified weather
observer", if that
was the case there would be no such thing as a contact approach. That's
my take on it, any ideas from you pilots?


Well, you're wrong. It does have to be an "absolutely certified weather
observer".

Roy Smith wrote in
:

Let's say for example my FBO has a certified weather observer on
staff. I call up on unicom, ask for the weather, and am told it's
5000 broken and 2 miles. Does that count as "reported"? When I ask
ATC for a contact approach, they won't have that observation. Do I
just tell the controller that I've got a report from the FBO?

You just tell him that you have the weather. I do this all the time,
flying approaches to slimeholes in the backwaters of south Louisiana,
using weather from company observers, under Part 135. They're certified,
and do make supplemental observations to the NWS, but mostly they just do
observations for us when needed. It's the same as any other weather
report, and the same as if you get it from a tower. The ATC specialist
doesn't care where the weather came from, or how you got it. All he
cares about is that you can get on the ground and out of his airspace.
Tell him you have the Podunk weather, want to fly the approach, and he'll
give you a clearance.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 04:09:05 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

If your FBO has a certified weather observer on staff ATC will have that
observation.

Steve,

What's your take on this situation?

There was an accredited weather observer on the ground at KEPM. KEPM
rarely in the past would report weather to Bangor Radio, but did not on
this particular day.

I contacted this observer on 122.8 and obtained the visibility from him. I
then relayed this information to ATC and told them it was from an
accredited observer.

I was then cleared for a contact approach.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)