Avid flyer

On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:02:32 +0000, jan olieslagers
wrote:



So allow me to repeat the question: what kind and amount of work would
it take to convert a taildragger Avid Flyer to tricycle?

simple answer ...goes for any taildragger to milkstool conversion.

determin CG position.

cut fuselage apart and move the main gear rearward of the cg and weld
new mounts in position.

either replace the engine mount with one beefed up to support the new
nosewheel
or
cut apart and modify the forward fuselage to take the new nosewheel
mount.

this is probably major surgery on the airframe and will involve a
structural savvy aeronautical engineer to design the mods.

now speaking as a taildragger pilot myself it would be far better if
you polished those stainless steel testicles of yours and went and got
a taildragger endorsement.
you'll never regret mastering the change back to real aeroplanes.
they are lighter, they have less drag, and no matter the swagger of
the milkstool pilot you'll be way cooler.(you wont even need raybans
to look cooler)

Stealth Pilot

On 10/7/2009 8:02 AM, Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 06:02:32 +0000, jan olieslagers
wrote:



So allow me to repeat the question: what kind and amount of work would
it take to convert a taildragger Avid Flyer to tricycle?

simple answer ...goes for any taildragger to milkstool conversion.

determin CG position.

cut fuselage apart and move the main gear rearward of the cg and weld
new mounts in position.

either replace the engine mount with one beefed up to support the new
nosewheel
or
cut apart and modify the forward fuselage to take the new nosewheel
mount.

this is probably major surgery on the airframe and will involve a
structural savvy aeronautical engineer to design the mods.

now speaking as a taildragger pilot myself it would be far better if
you polished those stainless steel testicles of yours and went and got
a taildragger endorsement.
you'll never regret mastering the change back to real aeroplanes.
they are lighter, they have less drag, and no matter the swagger of
the milkstool pilot you'll be way cooler.(you wont even need raybans
to look cooler)

Stealth Pilot

and much safer in and out of rough field, IMO.

In article ,
says...

now speaking as a taildragger pilot myself it would be far better if
you polished those stainless steel testicles of yours and went and got
a taildragger endorsement.


But, Sir, there is no tailwheel endorsement in Belgium...

Nobody who want to teach TD either: I went to France to get the -in my
eyes necessary- training and even there they would no allow TD-flying
when there was more than 5 knots crosswind-component.

No 5 knots cross means that our flying will be restricted to about 15
days a year.


you'll never regret mastering the change back to real aeroplanes.
they are lighter, they have less drag, and no matter the swagger of
the milkstool pilot you'll be way cooler.(you wont even need raybans
to look cooler)


Nobody argues about the 'cool'-factor but insurances have no 'coolness'-
factor: they charge significantly more for a TD than tricycle. Sadly
they do that for a valid reason.

As for stainless balls: no need for them in a plane. Sounds bad for
weight and balance.

Just my 2 (euro-)cents,

Tom De Moor (as Jan living near Brussels, Belgium)

Tom De Moor schreef:

Nobody who want to teach TD either: I went to France to get the -in my
eyes necessary- training and even there they would no allow TD-flying
when there was more than 5 knots crosswind-component.

In this respect I know better: two of my instructors are experienced
PPL-taildragger pilots, both making beautiful 3-point landings occasionally.

Mind you, they are my instructors on Belgium ultralight (2-seater, 450
kg max gross) which is more like a US-an LSA, and fits the Avid Flyer
neatly.

As for the endorsement: perhaps it doesn't exist legally, I don't doubt
you are right. But no club will let me fly its taildraggers without
proper training, and neither will I risk my own - if ever I buy this
Flyer, at the moment I don't think so.

De groeten, Tom!

On Oct 7, 10:28 am, Tom De Moor
wrote:

But, Sir, there is no tailwheel endorsement in Belgium...

Nobody who want to teach TD either: I went to France to get the -in my
eyes necessary- training and even there they would no allow TD-flying
when there was more than 5 knots crosswind-component.

No 5 knots cross means that our flying will be restricted to about 15
days a year.

Nobody argues about the 'cool'-factor but insurances have no 'coolness'-
factor: they charge significantly more for a TD than tricycle. Sadly
they do that for a valid reason.

There's no tailwheel endorsement in Canada, either. And we pay no more
for insurance on a taildragger than a trike. The taildragger's dragon-
breath is way overestimated. We train all of our students on the
Citabria, including teenage girls and a few folks who have some
trouble learning. They all get it. And the Citabria (7ECA) is going to
be way more squirrelly than an Avid, with its touchdown speed of over
50 mph. They demonstrate 10 kt crosswind landings and TOs before they
solo. I've done 15-20 kt xwinds in these. They will teach you how to
*actually* fly, something rather handy.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Oct 7, 10:28 am, Tom De Moor
wrote:

But, Sir, there is no tailwheel endorsement in Belgium...

Nobody who want to teach TD either: I went to France to get the -in my
eyes necessary- training and even there they would no allow TD-flying
when there was more than 5 knots crosswind-component.

No 5 knots cross means that our flying will be restricted to about 15
days a year.

Nobody argues about the 'cool'-factor but insurances have no 'coolness'-
factor: they charge significantly more for a TD than tricycle. Sadly
they do that for a valid reason.

There's no tailwheel endorsement in Canada, either. And we pay no more
for insurance on a taildragger than a trike. The taildragger's dragon-
breath is way overestimated. We train all of our students on the
Citabria, including teenage girls and a few folks who have some
trouble learning. They all get it. And the Citabria (7ECA) is going to
be way more squirrelly than an Avid, with its touchdown speed of over
50 mph. They demonstrate 10 kt crosswind landings and TOs before they
solo. I've done 15-20 kt xwinds in these. They will teach you how to
*actually* fly, something rather handy.

Dan

Just curious, Dan,

Do you accomplish the ab initio training on grass or on pavement?

I have yet to fly a tailwheeler, but I have heard that the grass is much
more forgiving--and that fits with everything I know about physics.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...
wrote in message

...
On Oct 7, 10:28 am, Tom De Moor
wrote:

But, Sir, there is no tailwheel endorsement in Belgium...

Nobody who want to teach TD either: I went to France to get the -in
my
eyes necessary- training and even there they would no allow
TD-flying
when there was more than 5 knots crosswind-component.

No 5 knots cross means that our flying will be restricted to about
15
days a year.

Nobody argues about the 'cool'-factor but insurances have no
'coolness'-
factor: they charge significantly more for a TD than tricycle.
Sadly
they do that for a valid reason.

There's no tailwheel endorsement in Canada, either. And we pay no
more
for insurance on a taildragger than a trike. The taildragger's
dragon-
breath is way overestimated. We train all of our students on the
Citabria, including teenage girls and a few folks who have some
trouble learning. They all get it. And the Citabria (7ECA) is going
to
be way more squirrelly than an Avid, with its touchdown speed of
over
50 mph. They demonstrate 10 kt crosswind landings and TOs before
they
solo. I've done 15-20 kt xwinds in these. They will teach you how to
*actually* fly, something rather handy.

Dan

Just curious, Dan,

Do you accomplish the ab initio training on grass or on pavement?

I have yet to fly a tailwheeler, but I have heard that the grass is
much
more forgiving--and that fits with everything I know about physics.

Peter

Letting some air out of the tires helps too. At least this is what a
fellow instructor did on his 8A Luscombe.

--
A man is known by the company he keeps- Unknown

Anyolmouse

On Oct 7, 3:56 pm, "Peter Dohm" wrote:

Just curious, Dan,

Do you accomplish the ab initio training on grass or on pavement?

I have yet to fly a tailwheeler, but I have heard that the grass is much
more forgiving--and that fits with everything I know about physics.

Peter

On pavement, and then some on the grass if it isn't deep in snow like
we get here sometimes. The pavement isn't a big deal if you get the
alignment right, and it'll sure tell you if you're off a bit. One
thing you really DO want: a good, experienced instructor who will keep
you out of trouble. I used to spend some time early on just getting
the student to accelerate to a speed short of takeoff, then pull the
throttle back and let him figure out how to keep it straight. Once he
understands the idea that he has to anticipate the swerve and could
keep it straight, then I'd start shoving the rudder pedals around to
make it swerve and get him to fix it. Lotsa fun. ANd he learned soon
that you used ALL the controls, not just the pedals; aileron and
elevator also come into play on the ground, too. Taildraggers are
flown until they're tied down.

Typical first solo in a 172 will come at around 10-15 hours. Then that
student, once licensed, will have to spend maybe 7-10 hours in the
Citabria to get the taildragger solo. The student who starts from
scratch in the Citabria (and we do a few) will solo it in the same
10-15 hours as the trike student did. There is really no magic to it,
no steel-ball guts required, no special intelligence or ability
needed. But *please* don't tell my trike-only buddies that. Might hurt
my macho reputation:-)

Dan

In this respect I know better: two of my instructors are experienced
PPL-taildragger pilots, both making beautiful 3-point landings occasionally.

I just recently went on a flight with our test pilot on an Fk 14
Polaris that had a tailwheel. I got to land the thing and it was no
problem at all, I just barely realized I was in a taildragger. But
this probably differs from one plane to the other.

Oliver

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 18:06:39 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


Citabria to get the taildragger solo. The student who starts from
scratch in the Citabria (and we do a few) will solo it in the same
10-15 hours as the trike student did. There is really no magic to it,
no steel-ball guts required, no special intelligence or ability
needed. But *please* don't tell my trike-only buddies that. Might hurt
my macho reputation:-)

Dan

that is one of aviations big jokes. there is no magic about it at all,
just the application of technique based on theory.

my Tailwind gets flown in windsock horizontal conditions when needed.
it isnt fun and can be hard work but it is doable.

the sad thing in aviation is that the shiny arsed office dwelling
regulators and the timid of heart all put up barriers to flight that
are totally unnecessary.

there is a technology and a technique to it and once mastered it is
easy.

if it were local to me and the price was right I'd buy Karel's avid in
a flash.

Stealth Pilot