Keeping Me Out of Your Warbird?

Looking over recent photos of the P-38 "Glacier Girl", and reading
all ($$$) that was involved in its restoration, I was wondering...

What's stopping me from laying low during the next air show
and in the early hours of the morning, climbing into the cockpit
of my favorite warbird, and flying it off to my secret hideaway
runway and storage facility where I also keep my illicitly gained
Rembrandts, Van Goghs and pre-Columbian Indian art?

I have read of some British and American pilots, shot down over
Nazi occupied Europe, stealing LW aircraft to make their escapes.
Obviously no "keys" required for startup.

Do restored warbirds have some sort of security system added to
keep unscrupulous members of the public such as me, from taking
one up for an unauthorized flight? Some sort of starting "key"?

What about current military aircraft?


SMH

Do restored warbirds have some sort of security system added to
keep unscrupulous members of the public such as me, from taking
one up for an unauthorized flight? Some sort of starting "key"?

Cops at night patrol the airshow grounds plus, some have keys installed.
VL

Stephen Harding wrote:

Looking over recent photos of the P-38 "Glacier Girl", and reading
all ($$$) that was involved in its restoration, I was wondering...

What's stopping me from laying low during the next air show
and in the early hours of the morning, climbing into the cockpit
of my favorite warbird, and flying it off to my secret hideaway
runway and storage facility where I also keep my illicitly gained
Rembrandts, Van Goghs and pre-Columbian Indian art?

I have read of some British and American pilots, shot down over
Nazi occupied Europe, stealing LW aircraft to make their escapes.
Obviously no "keys" required for startup.

Do restored warbirds have some sort of security system added to
keep unscrupulous members of the public such as me, from taking
one up for an unauthorized flight? Some sort of starting "key"?

What about current military aircraft?

When was the last time you've strapped on a P-38 and took it up for
a spin? Even in the unlikely event that you've flown warbirds, the
operative word here is "proficiency."

As an aside, I often leave my bird unattended at major EAA airshows
(such as Airventure in Wisconsin or Sun 'n Fun in Florida).

While I'm gone, there's nothing stopping anyone from taking it up for
an unauthorized flight...

http://www.dcivideo.com/trikes/Tampa_Trike_Flying.wmv

But even if Yeager himself attempted to fly it without a checkout, it
would be tantamount to suicide!

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
Looking over recent photos of the P-38 "Glacier Girl", and reading
all ($$$) that was involved in its restoration, I was wondering...

What's stopping me from laying low during the next air show
and in the early hours of the morning, climbing into the cockpit
of my favorite warbird, and flying it off to my secret hideaway
runway and storage facility where I also keep my illicitly gained
Rembrandts, Van Goghs and pre-Columbian Indian art?

I have read of some British and American pilots, shot down over
Nazi occupied Europe, stealing LW aircraft to make their escapes.
Obviously no "keys" required for startup.

Do restored warbirds have some sort of security system added to
keep unscrupulous members of the public such as me, from taking
one up for an unauthorized flight? Some sort of starting "key"?

What about current military aircraft?


SMH

In theory it could be done, but the pilot doing it would have to be REAL
good! :-)) Just the pre-requesites are daunting to say the least.
First, the pilot doing this would have to be good enough to actually fly the
airplane, which not only requires specific skills but is aircraft specific
also. That means the thief would have to know where everything is in the
cockpit....probably in the dark .
A self inspired night checkout in the average warbird would kill all but the
most "inspired" I can assure you!! :-)))
A lot of the guys have a padlock setup on their canopies or doors in the
case of multi-engine stuff. Some aircraft canopy design allows for a hole in
the canopy track you can padlock. I never used one. Security was usually
supplied for me/ and/or the airplane was inside all the time.
Generally, the feeling in the warbird community when I was active was that
with normal security, you really didn't spend all that much time worrying
about someone stealing the airplane.
There have been cases in the military of enlisted people "borrowing" an
aircraft for a joyride. I remember one incident back in the fifties when a
crew chief was taxi testing an F86D and decided on the spot to fly it. They
got him back down somehow and promptly arrested him. Some other idiot "stole
a B25 down at Keesler and got it into the air somehow. He lost an engine,
then tried a turn into his dead left engine at about 100kts. Needless to
say, he morted as the airplane went into the gulf off the beach at Biloxi.
Bottom line....it's possible......but considering the fact that the pilot
would first have to be current in type and motovated to steal the airplane;
the available window for potential would be theives is quite small I would
imagine.
Dudley

Just the pre-requesites are daunting to say the least.
First, the pilot doing this would have to be good enough to actually fly the
airplane, which not only requires specific skills but is aircraft specific
also. That means the thief would have to know where everything is in the

A maintenance troop stole a C-130 off the ramp at RAF Mildenhall. Got all four
started and managed to get ot off the ground. IIRC he was trying to get back
to the US to see his wife or girlfriend wh was leaving him. He ended up headed
the wrong direction and was shot down by fighters out of USAFE as the story
goes. Supposedly he grashed but there were pieces found with what looked to be
cannon hits.

We used to practice trying to steal F-4s from RAF Lakenheath. All it took was
a gullible crew chief to help with the start and then taxi off. Usually the
flightline chief realized there was a plane taxiing that wan't on the schedule
and then the sky cops were launched. Their instructions were to try to block
the plane with their vehicles and if that failed, to shoot the crew.

Unathorized people in the flightline got interesting treatment as well. Full
spread eagle on the ramp with an M-16 barrel poked in the ear. Happened once
to a doctor from the base hospital and his two yong daughters. I suspect they
still talk about their experience with daddy.

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
Do restored warbirds have some sort of security system added to
keep unscrupulous members of the public such as me, from taking
one up for an unauthorized flight? Some sort of starting "key"?

What about current military aircraft?

In theory it could be done, but the pilot doing it would have to be REAL
good! :-)) Just the pre-requesites are daunting to say the least.
First, the pilot doing this would have to be good enough to actually fly the
airplane, which not only requires specific skills but is aircraft specific
also. That means the thief would have to know where everything is in the
cockpit....probably in the dark .
A self inspired night checkout in the average warbird would kill all but the
most "inspired" I can assure you!! :-)))

I was hoping you or Vlado would comment.

Well I'll take your word for it. But I recall an American pilot shot
down in Europe during WWII stealing a FW 190 (IIRC). He got the thing
started and into the air (in the dark), but flew it back to England with
the gear down since he couldn't figure out how to raise it.

Is basic flying of a WWII aircraft *really* that much more difficult than
a Cessna 152? We're not talking about doing loops, barrel rolls and split
S's. Just run the plane back to my secret hideout where I'll only look and
admire it as *my own*, as if a piece of art!

A lot of the guys have a padlock setup on their canopies or doors in the
case of multi-engine stuff. Some aircraft canopy design allows for a hole in
the canopy track you can padlock. I never used one. Security was usually
supplied for me/ and/or the airplane was inside all the time.

But figure an aircraft worth $1 million plus, and airport security that
could not be more competent than a Nazi LW base during wartime! Seems
the opportunity for lifting one of these aircraft wouldn't be too challenging.
As you point out, flying it, might be a bit different.

Still, you spend $1 million for your P-51, or, like Glacier Girl, something
like $4 million on the restoration, seems adding an ignition key to start
the thing wouldn't be too prohibitive (although you might lose the "Most
Faithful Restoration" Award as a result).

Generally, the feeling in the warbird community when I was active was that
with normal security, you really didn't spend all that much time worrying
about someone stealing the airplane.

I think aircraft theft in general is rather rare. But still, we're talking
about millions of dollars of value here.

There have been cases in the military of enlisted people "borrowing" an
aircraft for a joyride. I remember one incident back in the fifties when a
crew chief was taxi testing an F86D and decided on the spot to fly it. They
got him back down somehow and promptly arrested him. Some other idiot "stole
a B25 down at Keesler and got it into the air somehow. He lost an engine,
then tried a turn into his dead left engine at about 100kts. Needless to
say, he morted as the airplane went into the gulf off the beach at Biloxi.
Bottom line....it's possible......but considering the fact that the pilot
would first have to be current in type and motovated to steal the airplane;
the available window for potential would be theives is quite small I would
imagine.

I suppose so. You could never fly it safely on your own after you
successfully stole it, since there aren't that many, and the sudden
appearance of a newly painted P-51 (and even more so the more rare
P-39, P-40 or P-38) would no doubt raise suspicions.

The thief would have to be the type that just wanted to possess something
rare and beautiful for himself, like a piece of art, where he gained
pleasure and satisfaction just looking at it (as opposed to spending
a bundle on insurance, oil, gas and maintenance per hour of operation).

I guess having a P-38 painted up with "Glacier Girl" in my yard as a lawn
ornament would probably attract attention.

Well there are lots of F-16's around! Could I grab one of those without
too much problem?


SMH

"Smartace11" wrote in message
...
Just the pre-requesites are daunting to say the least.
First, the pilot doing this would have to be good enough to actually fly
the
airplane, which not only requires specific skills but is aircraft
specific
also. That means the thief would have to know where everything is in the

A maintenance troop stole a C-130 off the ramp at RAF Mildenhall. Got all
four
started and managed to get ot off the ground. IIRC he was trying to get
back
to the US to see his wife or girlfriend wh was leaving him. He ended up
headed
the wrong direction and was shot down by fighters out of USAFE as the
story
goes. Supposedly he grashed but there were pieces found with what looked
to be
cannon hits.

I can recall a case where a C-130E (637789) was indeed stolen by a
maintenance type in 1969 trying to get back to the US, but as I remember it
he was not shot down, and he did head in the right general direction. He
went down near the western end of the English Channel, killed himself in the
process (not surprisingly). The aircraft was from one of the C-130 squadrons
then assigned to Langley AFB; my Dad worked at the adjoining LRC/NASA, and
the whole incident caused quite a splash in the local media at the time.
Other than some conspiracy theorists relying on pure rumor mongering, there
was no evidence that it was "shot down". The more likely causes were listed
as either (non)pilot error (I guess that is what you would call it in this
case) or fuel starvation. One gent who was flying C-130's out of the UK at
the same time noted that for a short while thereafter there was a
requirement to chain down, with padlocks, all of their aircraft--but that
requirement died a quick death when someone lost one of the keys and they
had to use a fireaxe to liberate an aircraft to conduct a mission.

Brooks

snip

On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:11:54 -0500, "Kevin Brooks"
wrote:


I can recall a case where a C-130E (637789) was indeed stolen by a
maintenance type in 1969 trying to get back to the US, but as I remember it
he was not shot down, and he did head in the right general direction. He
went down near the western end of the English Channel, killed himself in the
process (not surprisingly). The aircraft was from one of the C-130 squadrons
then assigned to Langley AFB; my Dad worked at the adjoining LRC/NASA, and
the whole incident caused quite a splash in the local media at the time.
Other than some conspiracy theorists relying on pure rumor mongering, there
was no evidence that it was "shot down". The more likely causes were listed
as either (non)pilot error (I guess that is what you would call it in this
case) or fuel starvation. One gent who was flying C-130's out of the UK at
the same time noted that for a short while thereafter there was a
requirement to chain down, with padlocks, all of their aircraft--but that
requirement died a quick death when someone lost one of the keys and they
had to use a fireaxe to liberate an aircraft to conduct a mission.

Brooks

The Mildenhall theft did result in a crash. Definitely not a
shoot-down. Gotta say the guy wasn't very wise in his choice of
aircraft to steal. Should have at least tried something of a size in
which one person can reach all the switches without having to walk
around the flight deck.

Very few tactical jets had self-starting capability during my tenure.
The only one that I recall was the T-37, which didn't require any
external power unless you planned to be on the radio waiting for a
clearance for more than about twenty minutes. All the rest required
air carts to spin up the engine. If you found one with pyro start
carts installed, you could then get it fired up without assistance.

You would have needed a friend if stealing an F-4 though, since
someone had to do the switches on the INS in the back seat to get an
alignment. No nav and no expensive flight instruments without it.
Ditto no ability to run the radar. Also you might want to know a bit
about securing the rear cockpit straps, etc. or you could find the
stick jammed from belts, harnesses, buckles and shifting seat kits.

I vaguely recall the chain-up business, but don't remember how it was
implemented on tactical aircraft. I think they chained up at night and
then removed them all in the morning during pre-flight.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

You would have needed a friend if stealing an F-4 though, since
someone had to do the switches on the INS in the back seat to get an
alignment. No nav and no expensive flight instruments without it.
Ditto no ability to run the radar. Also you might want to know a bit
about securing the rear cockpit straps, etc. or you could find the
stick jammed from belts, harnesses, buckles and shifting seat kits.

The Collings Foundation F4D (which I have worked on) has a GPS installed in
the front cockpit. You would still need some help with the ground
equipment for startup.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:

A self inspired night checkout in the average warbird would kill all but the
most "inspired" I can assure you!! :-)))

"All right, time to rotate...hmmm...what the...why can't I...
AAAGH ! The gust locks !"

PRANG ! Boom.



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