Owning vs. charter vs. airlines

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...



Walmart has never signed a single $4B deal AFAIK.

The two I mentioned. Wal-Mart was perhaps the first compnay to do long
term
deals with their vendors, which is why they were able to get fabulous
deals.

Period. Furthermore I
doubt that *any* supplier has ever lost Walmart as a customer because
they
could not arrive somewhere at a particular time.


I also forgot to mention all the corporate buyouts that run well over $4
billion.



Do you think that any of these buyouts or any other $4 transaction hinged on
having a corporate jet?

Mike
MU-2

"Mike" wrote in message
...

Will it ever be the most reliable? The airlines have more planes to
swap around if something breaks, for example. And the private jet is
subject to most of the same air-traffic delays, isn't it?

Let me preface this by saying that I am by no means an expert. I
think with some fractional ownership jets, you have a choice between
several.

I believe Gulfstream and Cessna have replacemnt (loaner) programs if your G
or Citation is down for some reason.

I've had far fewer availability problems with my Bonanza than I did when I
did the airline (United) shuffle.

Therefore, I think reliability would be less of an issue. I
also think that air traffic control can subject private aircraft to
the same delays as commercail.

They can, and do. According to APOA, GA serves over 19,000 airports, the
airlines serve 374 with scheduled service and only 29 major hubs.
http://aopa2.org/special/newsroom/facts.html


However, our city has 2 airports. One
downtown with mostly private aircraft and one large interanational
airport. I have been 16th in line for takeoff from the international
airport, but it is rare that a lot of aircraft are moving or taking
off at the same time at the downtown airport.

How fast can you be out the front gate of your GA airport compared with the
same factor at your airline/hub? My best time was 11 minutes at Rapid City
(RAP) SD. Best on the airline? Maybe 30 minutes.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...



Walmart has never signed a single $4B deal AFAIK.

The two I mentioned. Wal-Mart was perhaps the first compnay to do long
term
deals with their vendors, which is why they were able to get fabulous
deals.

Period. Furthermore I
doubt that *any* supplier has ever lost Walmart as a customer because
they
could not arrive somewhere at a particular time.


I also forgot to mention all the corporate buyouts that run well over $4
billion.



Do you think that any of these buyouts or any other $4 transaction hinged
on
having a corporate jet?


Certainly. Have you ever participated in one? They don't do it my phone
calls and email.

MOF, John Deakin tells the story of one in his article after making the
transition to the G-IV, and how the business crew prepped for their meeting
during the flight. http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185048-1.html (about
2/3rds down). I rather expect this is the rule more than the exception.

This past week we began our "season" by doing a land buy and then
negotiations with sub-contractors near San Antonio. The entire flight the
contractor foremen were working up scenarios. We did the whole thing in one
day and closed a $1.8M deal on two fronts. This is, of course, chicken feed
compared to the Fortune 50 world.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...



Walmart has never signed a single $4B deal AFAIK.

The two I mentioned. Wal-Mart was perhaps the first compnay to do long
term
deals with their vendors, which is why they were able to get fabulous
deals.

Period. Furthermore I
doubt that *any* supplier has ever lost Walmart as a customer
because
they
could not arrive somewhere at a particular time.


I also forgot to mention all the corporate buyouts that run well over
$4
billion.



Do you think that any of these buyouts or any other $4 transaction hinged
on
having a corporate jet?


Certainly. Have you ever participated in one? They don't do it my phone
calls and email.

Yes I have and over the phone is how most of it is done. Once there is a
conceptual deal, THEN you have the finance people, product people ect start
getting together. Having people flying around to meet in person usually is
discovered and the word gets out. Then the stocks go up and the deal can't
be done. There was a large oil company aquisition that cost over $300MM
more because someone thought it would be secret and clever to hold talks on
their jets while they were parked next to each other. It didn't take a
genius to figure what was going on



MOF, John Deakin tells the story of one in his article after making the
transition to the G-IV, and how the business crew prepped for their
meeting
during the flight. http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185048-1.html (about
2/3rds down). I rather expect this is the rule more than the exception.

This past week we began our "season" by doing a land buy and then
negotiations with sub-contractors near San Antonio. The entire flight the
contractor foremen were working up scenarios. We did the whole thing in
one
day and closed a $1.8M deal on two fronts. This is, of course, chicken
feed
compared to the Fortune 50 world.


The fact remains that big deals are not lost due to the lack of a coporate
jet to get people somewhere a few hours earlier..

Mike
MU-2

The fact remains that big deals are not lost due to the lack of a coporate
jet to get people somewhere a few hours earlier..

Mike
MU-2


Mike,

I don't believe its established that its a fact. You cannot prove a
negative, so you cannot prove your point. On the other hand, I have seen
multi million dollar deals go south for reasons of people being late, and
other small things.

At a certain level in corporate america, the schedules get tight enough that
even a corporate jet isn't enough to get your top executives around enough
to keep the relationships strong enough. I have hade plenty of experience
with SMB's that get insulted that your Fortune 100 CEO or other C level guy
hasn't been out to see them in person. Sometimes you can overcome that, and
sometimes you can't.

One thing that is even harder to overcome is your guy showing up on late AND
saying the wrong things. This problem has cost me enough to pay for my
airplane, and one jerk who blew it for me left our company (after
mismanaging it as president and COO, and went on to mismanage a bigger
company as CEO for even more money). It pays to have connections on Wall
Sreet. Especially if you are incompetent.

My point is that being somewhere at a particular time seldom makes or breaks
any transaction and the larger the transaction, the less likely it matters.
Does anybody really think that today's merger between Chevron and Unocal
would not have taken place if someone had been a few hours or even a week
late?

Corporate jets serve many purposes but mainly to conserve valuable people's
time. The value of an employee's time to the company is about 3x his/her
salary and it is easy to see how the cost could be justified with highly
compensated employees. Travel by corporate jet is also considered more
secure since passengers aren't exposed to the public.

Mike
MU-2


"Dude" wrote in message
...

The fact remains that big deals are not lost due to the lack of a
coporate jet to get people somewhere a few hours earlier..

Mike
MU-2


Mike,

I don't believe its established that its a fact. You cannot prove a
negative, so you cannot prove your point. On the other hand, I have seen
multi million dollar deals go south for reasons of people being late, and
other small things.

At a certain level in corporate america, the schedules get tight enough
that even a corporate jet isn't enough to get your top executives around
enough to keep the relationships strong enough. I have hade plenty of
experience with SMB's that get insulted that your Fortune 100 CEO or other
C level guy hasn't been out to see them in person. Sometimes you can
overcome that, and sometimes you can't.

One thing that is even harder to overcome is your guy showing up on late
AND saying the wrong things. This problem has cost me enough to pay for
my airplane, and one jerk who blew it for me left our company (after
mismanaging it as president and COO, and went on to mismanage a bigger
company as CEO for even more money). It pays to have connections on Wall
Sreet. Especially if you are incompetent.

On 3 Apr 2005 14:07:50 -0500, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

Not sure what kind of car you are talking about, but it does not cost me
$15-$30/day. Mine is about $2.00 per day, which includes purchase price,
insurance and maintenance. But your point is still valid.



$2.00 is less than the price of 1 gal of gas. Hum - -

I was thinking something along the lines of -

Lease or payment $450 per mo = $14.80/day
Insurance $1,000 per year = $2.74/day
Gas $100 per mo = $3.29

Throw in maintenance etc. ---

Your numbers may be different, but $2.00/day??



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"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
. net...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...



Walmart has never signed a single $4B deal AFAIK.

The two I mentioned. Wal-Mart was perhaps the first compnay to do
long
term
deals with their vendors, which is why they were able to get
fabulous
deals.

Period. Furthermore I
doubt that *any* supplier has ever lost Walmart as a customer
because
they
could not arrive somewhere at a particular time.


I also forgot to mention all the corporate buyouts that run well over
$4
billion.



Do you think that any of these buyouts or any other $4 transaction
hinged
on
having a corporate jet?


Certainly. Have you ever participated in one? They don't do it my phone
calls and email.

Yes I have and over the phone is how most of it is done.

That's right! We spend days and weeks on the phone before going out and
talking face to face about land, zoning, land use ordnances, contractorsm
sub-contractors...

We do tons of email and fax and FedEx packages seting things up.

Then, we hop in the plane and meet all the parties involved.

Once there is a
conceptual deal, THEN you have the finance people, product people ect
start
getting together. Having people flying around to meet in person usually
is
discovered and the word gets out. Then the stocks go up and the deal
can't
be done. There was a large oil company aquisition that cost over $300MM
more because someone thought it would be secret and clever to hold talks
on
their jets while they were parked next to each other. It didn't take a
genius to figure what was going on

It didn't take a genius to figure out what was going on BEFORE the started
parking jets next to each other (this thing sounds like some goofy
Hollyweird script).

Funny, isn't it, that a few years ago video conferencing and high spped
communications was thought to be the end of flying around and conducting
meetings? Weren't we supposed to telecommute instead of having office space?

Don't even get me started on the "paperless office".

The point isn't (or shouldn't be) that being a bit late is solved by a
business jet. In that you're correct. OTOH, it's not merely a notion that
flying a team out to negotitate and conclude deals face-to-face, with the
"highly compensated employees and executives" is HIGHLY beneficial AFTER a
lot of leg work is completed.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO



MOF, John Deakin tells the story of one in his article after making the
transition to the G-IV, and how the business crew prepped for their
meeting
during the flight. http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185048-1.html
(about
2/3rds down). I rather expect this is the rule more than the exception.

This past week we began our "season" by doing a land buy and then
negotiations with sub-contractors near San Antonio. The entire flight
the
contractor foremen were working up scenarios. We did the whole thing in
one
day and closed a $1.8M deal on two fronts. This is, of course, chicken
feed
compared to the Fortune 50 world.


The fact remains that big deals are not lost due to the lack of a coporate
jet to get people somewhere a few hours earlier..

Which wasn't the point (timing, though that is certainly a MINOR factor).

In article w8s3e.130030$Ze3.41941@attbi_s51, Grumman-581
wrote:

€ "Alan Street" wrote in message
€ ...
€ That would imply about $400 billion a year turnover. According to
€ WalMart's financial statements, their total turnover was $259 billion
€ last year. ( http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=WMT&annual ).
€
€ Hey Alan... Didn't know that you frequent this group also... What's up? No
€ diving in San Diego this weekend? Up here the water has visibility as bad
€ as New Orleans and it's cold to boot...
€
€

Actually, this is cross-posted to rec.travel.air, which I tend to hang
out on (fair amount of business travel, and for a peon like me, never
in the CitationX). But it's interesting to see the difference in
perspectives between the front and back of the plane.

The diving has been good recently, but I've been too busy to get wet.
Hope to change that in a month or two.

Alan

There is also the point that many corporations have policies that
prohibit having more than one or two high level/ key executives on the
same flight, just in case.

Randy