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Adding rudders to Logitech Wingman (can it be done)?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 16th 05, 12:18 AM
Flight Sim newbie
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Default Adding rudders to Logitech Wingman (can it be done)?

How can I add rudder pedals to a "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" joystick?
Or, can I add that joystick to a "Logitech Formula GP Racing Wheel"?

I'm a newbie who would like to ask a newbie question (please advise).

To save time in the Citabria 7ECA ($80/hour) at a local airport, I
installed Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 which has helped me in ground
school, especially for the instrumentation and radio traffic portions.

But the "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" has no rudder pedals.

On the other hand, I bought for my kids the "Logitech Formula GP Racing
Wheel", which does come with two pedals (accelerator & brake) attached
via a telephone connector (which is probably rs-232 serial wired).

I guess I have three questions:
Q1: Has anyone disassembled a Logitech joystick to add the rudder
pedals?
Q2: Is there a joystick which works with the existing rudder pedals?
Q3: Or do I have to go out and buy a third joystick with rudder pedals?

Please advise this Microsoft Flight Simulator newbie.

  #2  
Old February 16th 05, 12:44 AM
Aaron Smith
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Default

"Flight Sim newbie" wrote in
ups.com:

How can I add rudder pedals to a "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" joystick?
Or, can I add that joystick to a "Logitech Formula GP Racing Wheel"?
I'm a newbie who would like to ask a newbie question (please advise).


The best advice of this group is to ditch the toy simulator & go back to
flying the real thing - oh - and we all think you should ditch the tail
dragger too - fly real tricycle gear - it's the only way to fly.
  #3  
Old February 16th 05, 01:51 PM
James Calivar
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"Aaron Smith" wrote in message
.158...
"Flight Sim newbie" wrote in
ups.com:

How can I add rudder pedals to a "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" joystick?
Or, can I add that joystick to a "Logitech Formula GP Racing Wheel"?
I'm a newbie who would like to ask a newbie question (please advise).


The best advice of this group is to ditch the toy simulator & go back to
flying the real thing - oh - and we all think you should ditch the tail
dragger too - fly real tricycle gear - it's the only way to fly.


Idiot post of the month


  #4  
Old February 16th 05, 04:54 AM
Jay Williams
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First, ignore Aaron. Who the hell is he? I've been here for years and
never heard of him before. There's always some superior Foxtrot Hotel
wanting to dump, especially if you call yourself a newbie. If MSFS helps
you practice procedures, more power to you. Lots of people have used it for
that purpose. Don't forget however, that flying the real thing feels
different. Lots of people find the real thing easier because of that.

Second, alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim is the best place for help with MSFS
2004, 2002, etc. Lots of helpful people there, many of them "real life"
pilots. In particularly, look for Dudley Henriques... Remarkably few
Foxtrot Hotels... It also has less posts devoted to politics.

Third, the original logitech Wingman Force (with the USB and serial port)
was designed to work with a game port set of rudder pedals. No subsequent
one has been so designed, to my knowledge.

BUT that doesn't mean you can't use rudder pedals with it. You can, and
easily. Plug some rudder pedals in (I recommend the CH Pro Pedals, in USB
flavor... You'll love the toe brakes) You don't need the CH manager
software for this, but it is a great program.

Go into MSFS2004. Click on "settings". In the upper right is the section
for controls. Click on "assignments". At the top, click on the tab for
"axes". Under "joystick type" select your logitech joystick. Where the
axes (plural for axis) are defined, scroll down to "rudder axis". Uncheck
the box. This will disable your twist grip rudder in MSFS 2004

Now go back to "Joystick Type". Select your rudder pedals. Scroll down to
"Rudder Axis" and make sure the box is checked. If you are using the CH Pro
pedals, it will be assigned the Z axis. You can also check the boxes for
Right Brake (y axis) and Left Brake (x axis) as well.

Don't freak out when you notice that the X axis of your logitech stick and Y
axis are assigned to elevator and alieron control and the z axis is the
throttle. Each joystick has an x, y, (and if it's a rudder or has a
throttle) a z axis. That's normal.

If you have other joystick type peripherals, you can assign them the same
way, or change the keystrokes and buttons to activate commands in the game,
etc.

Click OK, then you're good to go. You may want to exit and re-start MSFS
2004 before flying just to make sure your changes are saved.

Have fun.

BTW - your next new peripheral should be the Track IR2. It makes all the
difference in the world with MSFS 2004, especially since the virtual display
in MSFS 2004 is clickable.

"Flight Sim newbie" wrote in message
ups.com...
How can I add rudder pedals to a "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" joystick?
Or, can I add that joystick to a "Logitech Formula GP Racing Wheel"?

I'm a newbie who would like to ask a newbie question (please advise).

To save time in the Citabria 7ECA ($80/hour) at a local airport, I
installed Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 which has helped me in ground
school, especially for the instrumentation and radio traffic portions.

But the "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" has no rudder pedals.

On the other hand, I bought for my kids the "Logitech Formula GP Racing
Wheel", which does come with two pedals (accelerator & brake) attached
via a telephone connector (which is probably rs-232 serial wired).

I guess I have three questions:
Q1: Has anyone disassembled a Logitech joystick to add the rudder
pedals?
Q2: Is there a joystick which works with the existing rudder pedals?
Q3: Or do I have to go out and buy a third joystick with rudder pedals?

Please advise this Microsoft Flight Simulator newbie.



  #5  
Old February 16th 05, 05:48 AM
rob
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Default


"Jay Williams" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

Foxtrot Hotel



Is that anything like a Foxtrot Whiskey?


  #6  
Old February 19th 05, 06:52 AM
Flight Sim newbie
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Default

Jay Williams kindly wrote:
... the original logitech Wingman Force (with the USB & serial port)
was designed to work with a game port set of rudder pedals.
No subsequent one has been so designed, to my knowledge.

BUT that doesn't mean you can't use rudder pedals with it.
Plug some rudder pedals in (I recommend the CH Pro Pedals,
in USB flavor... You'll love the toe brakes).


Thank you very much Jay for your time & patience and effort to help.
Do I understand you correctly below?

I definately have a "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" joystick (it says so
right on the base) which has only one wire which is USB. This joystick
has a trigger plus five buttons & one throttle slider. I do not see any
place to plug in any rudder pedals into this joystick (as someone
suggested) so I guess I have to add separate USB rudder-and-brake
pedals as you kindly suggested.

Since the pedals on my kid's "Logitech Formula GP Racing Wheel" use a
tiny telephone hand-set jack (even smaller than a normal telephone
jack), I really don't see how I can attach those existing car-driving
gas-and-brake pedals (unless there is a telephone-to-usb or
telephone-to-serial adapter out there).

So, if I understand you correctly (and if I discount someone else's
suggestion to use the existing pedals), does that mean I should buy the
recommended set of rudder pedals & a USB splitter so I can plug both
the CH Pro rudders and the joystick into the same USB port?

  #7  
Old February 19th 05, 02:17 PM
Jay Williams
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1. You don't need a "usb splitter". They don't need to be plugged into the
same USB port. They don't even need to be plugged into the same kind (USB
1.1 or USB 2.0) port. If you don't have any vacant ports, you can either
unplug something you're not using at the moment ("hot-swapping" is sort of
the point of USB) or buy a USB hub. A USB hub plugs into a USB port and
allows you to plug a bunch more USB things into, effectively expanding the
number of ports you can have. Theoretically, I think you can have 256 USB
ports

So, plug the joystick into one USB port and the rudder pedals into another.
The computer will straighten it out.

As for using your kids gas and brake pedal for rudder pedals, if you see
them in the drop down box in the MSFS2004 / Settings / Joystick Assignments
/ Axes area, feel free to give it a try. You won't break anything. If it
works, fine, if not then buy some USB rudder pedals.

That being said, you'll find there are differences between rudder pedals and
the Gas / Brake pedal for a driving controller. Push on the gas pedal and
you'll see the brake pedal doesn't move (and vice versa). Also, gas and
brake pedals normally involve more of a rotating the foot around the ankle
joint then pushing the whole pedal forward (I'm describing computer
peripherals here, not the actual operation of a car). I don't own one
anymore, but if I recall correctly they were seen by the computer as
separate axes, not one axis being turned right or left. Rudder pedals are
seen as one axis (potentiometer) being turned right or left.

The CH Pro Pedals I use can be used as Gas / Brake Pedals. It involves a
setting in the software (control panel, I think or else the CH manager
software) and using little plastic spacers that are provided with the pedals
to eliminate the push / pull sympathetic movement between the pedals.
Essentially, the toe brake axes become the gas and brake pedals. I guess
that function comes in most handy for our friends who use a flight yoke to
control their planes and also like driving sims.

Simply speaking... you're making this much more complicated than it is with
trying to find someplace to plug the pedals into the stick and worrying
about them using the same USB port. Just plug them both in to whatever USB
ports you have available and set them up in the game's settings. You'll
find every single joystick type thing you have plugged into the computer in
that dropdown box. If it shows up in the "game controllers" area off the
control panel, it will show up there and you can assign buttons and axes
from it to your game. The only wrinkle is that if the gas and brake pedal
are separate axes (and I suspect they are).

Or... (see below)

"Flight Sim newbie" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jay Williams kindly wrote:
... the original logitech Wingman Force (with the USB & serial port)
was designed to work with a game port set of rudder pedals.
No subsequent one has been so designed, to my knowledge.

BUT that doesn't mean you can't use rudder pedals with it.
Plug some rudder pedals in (I recommend the CH Pro Pedals,
in USB flavor... You'll love the toe brakes).


Thank you very much Jay for your time & patience and effort to help.
Do I understand you correctly below?


Almost


I definately have a "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" joystick (it says so
right on the base) which has only one wire which is USB. This joystick
has a trigger plus five buttons & one throttle slider. I do not see any
place to plug in any rudder pedals into this joystick (as someone
suggested) so I guess I have to add separate USB rudder-and-brake
pedals as you kindly suggested.


Probably

Since the pedals on my kid's "Logitech Formula GP Racing Wheel" use a
tiny telephone hand-set jack (even smaller than a normal telephone
jack), I really don't see how I can attach those existing car-driving
gas-and-brake pedals (unless there is a telephone-to-usb or
telephone-to-serial adapter out there).

Never heard or seen one, but *may* still be possible by selecting them as
the axes to assign to the rudder. I doubt it will work the way you want to
though, simply because rudders are designed to be one axis with a center you
deviate from left or right (causing the numbers sent to the computer to go
up or down from center). Gas and Brake pedals are designed to be two
different axes, each at zero, and going up when pressure is applied.

So, if I understand you correctly (and if I discount someone else's
suggestion to use the existing pedals), does that mean I should buy the
recommended set of rudder pedals & a USB splitter so I can plug both
the CH Pro rudders and the joystick into the same USB port?


Again, almost. you don't need a "splitter". They don't need to be plugged
into the same USB port. The computer is smart enough to keep track. If
you're out of USB ports you can buy a "Hub" which is a device (some are
powered, some aren't; I prefer the powered ones) that plugs into a USB port
on your computer and gives you from 3 to 7 more ports to plug devices into.

Last analogy. You want to watch TV and use your VCR and have a light on,
all at the same time. You don't have to buy a powerstrip and plug your TV
and VCR into the same electrical outlet unless you're out of outlets. The
hub is like the powerstrip. You can plug the TV into the outlet next to the
TV and if you want, the VCR and lamp into outlets across the room. It
doesn't matter where they are plugged in, just that they are.


  #8  
Old February 19th 05, 02:23 PM
Jay Williams
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After I wrote the post warning you that the Gas / Brake pedal thing might
use two axes and therefore not work I saw where Mikael has managed to get it
to work. It sounds like his wheel / pedal combo uses one axis for the gas /
brake (or else logitech has the ability to make it look that way to the
computer). If so, I'd use that setup, unless you really like toe brakes...
For me, I rarely do driving games and if I did, I'd just use a joystick for
the wheel and adjust the pro pedals to act as a gas / brake pedal (as
previously described)

"Flight Sim newbie" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jay Williams kindly wrote:
... the original logitech Wingman Force (with the USB & serial port)
was designed to work with a game port set of rudder pedals.
No subsequent one has been so designed, to my knowledge.

BUT that doesn't mean you can't use rudder pedals with it.
Plug some rudder pedals in (I recommend the CH Pro Pedals,
in USB flavor... You'll love the toe brakes).


Thank you very much Jay for your time & patience and effort to help.
Do I understand you correctly below?

I definately have a "Logitech Wingman Attack 2" joystick (it says so
right on the base) which has only one wire which is USB. This joystick
has a trigger plus five buttons & one throttle slider. I do not see any
place to plug in any rudder pedals into this joystick (as someone
suggested) so I guess I have to add separate USB rudder-and-brake
pedals as you kindly suggested.

Since the pedals on my kid's "Logitech Formula GP Racing Wheel" use a
tiny telephone hand-set jack (even smaller than a normal telephone
jack), I really don't see how I can attach those existing car-driving
gas-and-brake pedals (unless there is a telephone-to-usb or
telephone-to-serial adapter out there).

So, if I understand you correctly (and if I discount someone else's
suggestion to use the existing pedals), does that mean I should buy the
recommended set of rudder pedals & a USB splitter so I can plug both
the CH Pro rudders and the joystick into the same USB port?



  #9  
Old February 19th 05, 02:38 PM
Mikael K
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On 19-Feb-2005, "Jay Williams" wrote:

I saw where Mikael has managed to get it
to work. It sounds like his wheel / pedal combo uses one axis for the gas
/
brake (or else logitech has the ability to make it look that way to the
computer).


Just for the enlightning..
It is the logitech-driver that has the ability to switch between dual or
single-axis behavior.
The pedals are designed with dual-axis.. (think that goes with all of
logitech's pedals...)

Regards
Mikael K

--
Sorry.. no direct reply-email.. ;o)
  #10  
Old February 17th 05, 02:09 PM
Not-My-Real-Name
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Yes, you can use your wheels brake and throttle pedals as rudders.
My advice would be to download the Logitech controller software and
configure things up before launching your game.
Some games get mixed up when they see two controllers in use as well.

It all depends.


 




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