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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there are associated with buying a used glider. I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). BUT, for future reference, what inspections are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious structural damage or electrical problems? How much damage should I consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which is major (wing struts, etc)? Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. Is it common to pay someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase? Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Thanks -tom |
#2
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
I am in the UK so it might vary, but: 1) talk to your CFI before contemplating buying a glider, and take his/her guidance. At my club first gliders are usually glass, 15m and unflapped - gliders such as the ASW19, Pegase, DG300, LS4, Discus. These are all fairly easy to fly, have reasonable performance and will cope with field landings. 2) when you buy a glider you also need a parachute, and if you have any ambition at all an approved data logger. These cost money... And parachutes need repacking. My club gets it's chutes done yearly but I have a suspicion a more frequent repack is required in the US. My own parachute is a second-hand German one which was inspected and repacked before I brought it - in Germany parachutes have a finite life, in the UK it's 'on condition'. 3) the biggest cost for me is insurance, how much yours will cost you will depend on the value of your glider and how the insurer interprets your experience. 4) I also have to pay to keep my trailer / glider at the club. 5) in the UK every glider has to have an annual inspection - expensive at a professional workshop, but many clubs have inspectors who will do it at a lesser cost. 6) *nothing* should be delaminating / bent. If it is walk away from the glider - it has lead a hard life and/or not been looked after. IMHO wear and tear is things like tatty upholstry, and minor gel coat cracks for example at the corners of the airbrake boxes. Try to take an inspector with you when you go to look at a glider. 7) you must be comfortable in whatever you buy, otherwise flying it won't be the pleasure it should be. Sit in various suitable 'first gliders' and see what seems to fit. 8) if the seat pad isn't Dynafoam (or equivalent) budget to replace it. Hope that helps. In message , vic20owner writes No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there are associated with buying a used glider. I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). BUT, for future reference, what inspections are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious structural damage or electrical problems? How much damage should I consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which is major (wing struts, etc)? Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. Is it common to pay someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase? Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Thanks -tom -- Surfer! Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net |
#3
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
"vic20owner" wrote in message ... Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Buying a series of "wrong" gliders as a way of figuring out what you want and discovering what fits your style of flying is an expensive and complicated way to fly! Assuming that you have options near where you live, consider renting for at least a year after the end of your primary training. That year would be a great time to vacation at some of the better soaring sites and get checked out. The result will give you a sort "post grad" training and expose you in a variety of equipment and a variety of ideas. Vaughn |
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
At 17:55 05 May 2009, vaughn wrote:
"vic20owner" wrote in message ... Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Buying a series of "wrong" gliders as a way of figuring out what you want and discovering what fits your style of flying is an expensive and complicated way to fly! Assuming that you have options near where you live, consider renting for at least a year after the end of your primary training. That year would be a great time to vacation at some of the better soaring sites and get checked out. The result will give you a sort "post grad" training and expose you in a variety of equipment and a variety of ideas. Vaughn The vast majority of a gliders existance is usualy spent in a trailer. After the glider itself the condition of the trailer and fittings can be a major area of problems neglect to examine this at your peril!!! |
#5
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
If you don't have a hangar, then you will be assembling and
disassembling each time you fly. Make sure you know the effort involved in putting the ship together. I know two guys who bought a Phoebus in partnership, only to sell it the next season due to it being an absolute bear to assemble. A general rule is that the easier a ship goes together, the more it flies. Russia's, Libelle's and PW5's almost fall together. You can get a LAK12 with almost twice the L/D for the same price, but watch your friends scatter when you open the box. Brian At 18:30 05 May 2009, Ian Burgin wrote: At 17:55 05 May 2009, vaughn wrote: "vic20owner" wrote in message news:0b8eb208-90ef-4146-a7f3- ... Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Buying a series of "wrong" gliders as a way of figuring out what you want |
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
Brian Bange wrote:
You can get a LAK12 with almost twice the L/D for the same price, but watch your friends scatter when you open the box. Or you can purchase a LAK-12 with PU finish with proper rigging aids such that it is easily assembled by one man. Then have a good set of full covers (such as Jaxida) and leave the ship assembled during soaring season. Upon arrival at the airport you are "ready to fly" in under 5 minutes. Yes. I have exactly that ship with that setup for sale. ;-) Regards, -Doug p.s. the LAK-12 is not a beginner's sailplane, though it is easy to fly. |
#7
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
At 17:55 05 May 2009, vaughn wrote:
"vic20owner" wrote in message ... Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Buying a series of "wrong" gliders as a way of figuring out what you want and discovering what fits your style of flying is an expensive and complicated way to fly! Assuming that you have options near where you live, consider renting for at least a year after the end of your primary training. That year would be a great time to vacation at some of the better soaring sites and get checked out. The result will give you a sort "post grad" training and expose you in a variety of equipment and a variety of ideas. Vaughn Vaughn, First buy a glider with good handling qualities - avoid early glass ships with poor airbrakes. Buy a glider that is popular with glider pilots ASW19b , cirrus, etc My advise would be a GROB ASTIR CS .. good handling .. indestructable Gel coat, most have original 1977 gel. Roomy cockpit and good performance. As a previous post stated Beware the dodgy trailer!! if its apig to rig then you will not be getting it out very often! If possible look for a Lift Top Trailer ...Komet .. Cobra ..Swan etc these are the best for ease of rigging. Hope this helps, Paul |
#8
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
In message , Paul Goulding
writes snip Buy a glider that is popular with glider pilots ASW19b , cirrus, etc My advise would be a GROB ASTIR CS .. good handling .. indestructable Gel coat, most have original 1977 gel. Roomy cockpit and good performance. The concrete swan. Watch people develop bad backs & hernias when you want help rigging it, unless you have one of those one-man rig devices that take most of the weight! Snip -- Surfer! Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net |
#9
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
On May 5, 9:39*am, vic20owner wrote:
No, I am not planning to buy anything for at least a year ... but I have often wondered what other "hidden" expenses or obstacles there are associated with buying a used glider. I regularly see older planes in the $10K USD range (which is well within my price range). * BUT, for future reference, what inspections are required for the glider to be considered air worthy, and what else should I know before considering such a purchase aside from obvious structural damage or electrical problems? *How much damage should I consider "normal wear and tear" such as delaminating wing tips, bent rudder, etc which is a relatively easy repair versus something which is major (wing struts, etc)? Also, is there any specific paperwork (flight hours, maintenance records, etc) I should insist on seeing, etc. *Is it common to pay someone else to inspect the aircraft prior to purchase? Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Thanks -tom Assuming you are in the Sates, you will need an annual inspection for your glider. Depending on the condition this can range from $100 to whatever it costs to remedy any discrepancies. Before writing out a large check be sure to get a good pre-buy inspection by someone knowlegable in the type of sailplane you are looking at. Make sure that there are no outstanding pricy AD that have not been completed on whatever you are looking at. Good deals can be found. I got My Ka-6 for way below 10k in airworthy status with a roadworthy trailer. It may not fe fast glass, but for soaring in the Midwest it's hard to beat. Pete |
#10
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Beginner questions about buying a sailplane...
On May 5, 10:39*am, vic20owner wrote:
Lastly, are there any specific gliders one should avoid as a first used glider? (such as homebuilt kit planes, etc)? Yes. One way to tell: try to get your CFIG to fly it first. If he balks or even slightly hesitates.... In general, I would only recommend a homebuilt with excellent testimonials as to construction quality and flight characteristics by people other than the builder/seller, at least a few hundred hours on it, a generally good rep as to type characteristics, etc. - T8 (former fast/cheap/scary home built glider owner) |
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