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#1
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phoenix class b updates
How do I update the new Phoenix class b airspace to See You. See
You's files do nort have the changes. How often does See You update thier charts? Thanks Mike Martin |
#2
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phoenix class b updates
Hi Mike,
We had a similar issue here in Minnesota when the MSP Class B airspace changed. I asked Andrej at SeeYou to post an updated airspace file and he did. I recommend that you send him details on the dimensions of the new airspace. I recommend that you also send the details to StrePla and WinPilot and SoarPilot. I believe that the airport data the John Leibacher has access to also includes current airspace data, but I'm not certain. I would be glad to help you get this resolved. Good Soaring, Paul Remde Cumulus Soaring, Inc. http://www.cumulus-soaring.com wrote in message oups.com... How do I update the new Phoenix class b airspace to See You. See You's files do nort have the changes. How often does See You update thier charts? Thanks Mike Martin |
#3
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phoenix class b updates
On Nov 10, 9:10 am, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi Mike, We had a similar issue here in Minnesota when the MSP Class B airspace changed. I asked Andrej at SeeYou to post an updated airspace file and he did. I recommend that you send him details on the dimensions of the new airspace. I recommend that you also send the details to StrePla and WinPilot and SoarPilot. I believe that the airport data the John Leibacher has access to also includes current airspace data, but I'm not certain. I would be glad to help you get this resolved. Good Soaring, Paul Remde Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com wrote in message oups.com... - Show quoted text - Hi Paul, Thanks for the commens. I have sent a message to the See You forum. Mike Martin |
#4
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phoenix class b updates
Anyone thinking of soaring in the Phoenix area should be aware that gliders without operating transponders are not allowed to fly between 9,0000 ft and 10,000ft within the 30 nm mode C veil. This is direct consequence of the lowering of the class B ceiling from 10,000ft to 9,000ft. Andy |
#5
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phoenix class b updates
doesn't the transponder exception for aircraft manufactured without an
electrical system apply (or are you saying that they can't fly inside the Class B airspace)? Scott Andy wrote: Anyone thinking of soaring in the Phoenix area should be aware that gliders without operating transponders are not allowed to fly between 9,0000 ft and 10,000ft within the 30 nm mode C veil. This is direct consequence of the lowering of the class B ceiling from 10,000ft to 9,000ft. Andy -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Gotta Fly or Gonna Die Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version) |
#6
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phoenix class b updates
On Nov 11, 8:20 am, Scott wrote:
doesn't the transponder exception for aircraft manufactured without an electrical system apply (or are you saying that they can't fly inside the Class B airspace)? Scott In general, gliders have exemption to fly without a transponder under a mode C veil up to 10,000 feet, but the lowered class B around Phoenix overrides that. There is a letter of agreement available between local FBOs and the Arizona Soaring Association that would permit gliders to again operate in this 1000 feet of airspace, but to my knowledge, no one has signed it. Personally, I think you are nuts to want to fly anywhere near this airspace without a transponder. legal or not. There is also the more important question of whether or not we'll even have anywhere to launch in the foreseeable future. The newly re- opened Turf Soaring and Estrella Sailport are under pressure from development and I'm not hopeful that they will have a long future. Mike Andy wrote: Anyone thinking of soaring in the Phoenix area should be aware that gliders without operating transponders are not allowed to fly between 9,0000 ft and 10,000ft within the 30 nm mode C veil. This is direct consequence of the lowering of the class B ceiling from 10,000ft to 9,000ft. Andy -- Scotthttp://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Gotta Fly or Gonna Die Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version) |
#7
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phoenix class b updates
Yes, I'm not saying it would be wise to fly at 9000 close to PHX, just
that it is allowed (the mode C veil, that is)... Sorry to hear about Estrella I took my first two lessons there back in December of 2003. I REALLY enjoyed it out there!! Hope they can hold out!! Scott Mike the Strike wrote: On Nov 11, 8:20 am, Scott wrote: doesn't the transponder exception for aircraft manufactured without an electrical system apply (or are you saying that they can't fly inside the Class B airspace)? Scott In general, gliders have exemption to fly without a transponder under a mode C veil up to 10,000 feet, but the lowered class B around Phoenix overrides that. There is a letter of agreement available between local FBOs and the Arizona Soaring Association that would permit gliders to again operate in this 1000 feet of airspace, but to my knowledge, no one has signed it. Personally, I think you are nuts to want to fly anywhere near this airspace without a transponder. legal or not. There is also the more important question of whether or not we'll even have anywhere to launch in the foreseeable future. The newly re- opened Turf Soaring and Estrella Sailport are under pressure from development and I'm not hopeful that they will have a long future. Mike Andy wrote: Anyone thinking of soaring in the Phoenix area should be aware that gliders without operating transponders are not allowed to fly between 9,0000 ft and 10,000ft within the 30 nm mode C veil. This is direct consequence of the lowering of the class B ceiling from 10,000ft to 9,000ft. Andy -- Scotthttp://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Gotta Fly or Gonna Die Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version) -- Scott http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ Gotta Fly or Gonna Die Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version) |
#8
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phoenix class b updates
"Mike the Strike" wrote in message
ps.com... On Nov 11, 8:20 am, Scott wrote: doesn't the transponder exception for aircraft manufactured without an electrical system apply (or are you saying that they can't fly inside the Class B airspace)? Scott In general, gliders have exemption to fly without a transponder under a mode C veil up to 10,000 feet, but the lowered class B around Phoenix overrides that. There is a letter of agreement available between local FBOs and the Arizona Soaring Association that would permit gliders to again operate in this 1000 feet of airspace, but to my knowledge, no one has signed it. Mike.. Do you mean FSDO, not FBO.. Unless the FBOs have signed the LOA with the local FSDO and ATC facilities and they are the responsible party in the LOA. Everyone should really read FAR91.215 in regards to transponder requirements and exemptions within the 30nm Mode C veil around Class B airports. It applies to everyone, the non- transponder exemptions are for those without engine driven electric generating capability. 91.215 holds everyone without a transponder capability (J-3 Cubs, gliders, balloons or other antique no electrical system aircraft to remain below 10,000ftMSL OR the Ceiling of the Associated CLASS B airspace.. WHICH EVER IS LOWER. We have the same situation in the Las Vegas Area, the Class B only goes to 9,000MSL. Our soaring club holds the letter of agreement with local ATC, FSDO and the Western FAA District office in SFO. The LOA allows non-transponder gliders to climb between 9-10K MSL in certain designated climb windows. The window in use is dependent on the landing runway at McCarran (Class B airport). Install a transponder, and use it, and the 91.215 9K MSL altitude restriction goes away. But now the shoe is on the other foot, and hotly debated in the past. If you have a transponder it must be powered on, draining batteries, whether or not you plan to go above 9K MSL. (91.215(c)) BT |
#9
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phoenix class b updates
Sorry I wasn't clear about the letter of agreement. Yes, it is
between the FAA and three local soaring organizations - two FBOs and the ASA. Estrella is apparently going very well with a very solid training schedule, but it is starting to look like it will be encroached upon within the next few years. Furious development there has ended with the recent housing problems, but there will be pressure as land sales to developers are continuing. What makes me more pessimistic is that until the recent changes the FAA had been receptive to protecting Estrella's airspace. Now they don't seem to care. Mike |
#10
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phoenix class b updates
Thank Mike.. I just read the "DRAFT 2" doc version posted to the ASA
Discussions area Is it signed and now in effect? That is a pretty wide open waiver. An easy way to "track" and absolve some of the ASA concerns would be to add an "endorsement" area below the LOA, signed by the pilot wanting to use the LOA that he wants to be able to use the 91.215 waiver and keep a copy in you club records. We have one paragraph in our member and visitor application that covers our waiver. BT "Mike the Strike" wrote in message oups.com... Sorry I wasn't clear about the letter of agreement. Yes, it is between the FAA and three local soaring organizations - two FBOs and the ASA. Estrella is apparently going very well with a very solid training schedule, but it is starting to look like it will be encroached upon within the next few years. Furious development there has ended with the recent housing problems, but there will be pressure as land sales to developers are continuing. What makes me more pessimistic is that until the recent changes the FAA had been receptive to protecting Estrella's airspace. Now they don't seem to care. Mike |
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