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If user fees go into effect I'm done



 
 
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  #31  
Old February 10th 07, 04:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Mxsmanic
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Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Larry Dighera writes:

Why did your populous accept the imposition of a privatized ATC
system? What did you do to resist it?


Europeans are already accustomed to having their lives run for them by
bureaucrats (now in several layers both domestic and international). It does
not occur to them to _resist_ things. The ones who were willing to resist
injustices and incompetence crossed the Atlantic and Pacific centuries ago.

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  #32  
Old February 10th 07, 04:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Mxsmanic
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Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Sam Spade writes:

Asd to towers and ATC in general, do you suppose the FAA, or even
Congress, can take on the controllers' union at this point?


Yes, easily. It has been done before.

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  #33  
Old February 10th 07, 05:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default If user fees go into effect I'm done


"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

Asd to towers and ATC in general, do you suppose the FAA, or even
Congress, can take on the controllers' union at this point?


It's already been done.


  #34  
Old February 10th 07, 05:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Blueskies
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Default If user fees go into effect I'm done


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...
:
: "Blueskies" wrote in message
: . net...
:
: Yea, sure, for a FEE!
:
:
: Yes. Is that a problem?
:
:


So, you are saying let Flight Watch die, which for now is a free service, and replace it with a privatized service for a
fee. Yes, that is the problem...


  #35  
Old February 10th 07, 05:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

The EU is not exactly a democratic organisation. Even though it was
originally implemented by democratically elected politicians, the
influx of the voter's opinion on politician's actions is limited in
representative democracies anyway. Once the damage has been done (and
noticed), very little can be done about it.


Why? Because God forbids Europeans from participating in their own
government?

This type of fatalism is also typically European.

Privatisation of government tasks is part of neoliberal ideology, which
is the current trend among the political class ...


The notion of a "political class" is also typically European.

Please limit your comments to subjects you know about.


I knew you'd be the first to reply. Soon you'll be darkly adumbrating all
sorts of European interdictions on free speech in an attempt to silence me.

Europeans are their own worst enemies. Harper Valley is gradually rotting
from the inside.

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  #36  
Old February 10th 07, 05:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done


"Blueskies" wrote in message
. net...

So, you are saying let Flight Watch die, which for now is a free service,
and replace it with a privatized service for a fee. Yes, that is the
problem...


Flight Watch is not a free service, there are no free services. You
consider Flight Watch to be a "free service" only because you don't pay for
it directly, it's paid with taxes. I would much rather let Flight Watch die
and replace it with private sector service providers that charge fees and
compete for my patronage than pay a direct user fee to the FAA for each use
of Flight Watch.


  #37  
Old February 10th 07, 05:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

What I say above true for the US as well.


Not unless the U.S. has changed very dramatically indeed. Last time I was
there, mediocrity, social stratification, and complacency/apathy were not the
watchwords that they are in Europe.

"Political class" means there's a bunch of people who do politics as a
way of earning money. That bunch of people exists in the the US too.


In the U.S., politicians are people who do politics for a living. They are
not part of a separate class. Anyone can undertake politics in the U.S., and
anyone can leave it. You don't have to be born into a certain family or
anything like that.

Shut up


Freedom of speech is so irritating sometimes, eh?

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  #38  
Old February 10th 07, 06:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Blueskies
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Posts: 979
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...
:
: "Blueskies" wrote in message
: . net...
:
: So, you are saying let Flight Watch die, which for now is a free service,
: and replace it with a privatized service for a fee. Yes, that is the
: problem...
:
:
: Flight Watch is not a free service, there are no free services. You
: consider Flight Watch to be a "free service" only because you don't pay for
: it directly, it's paid with taxes. I would much rather let Flight Watch die
: and replace it with private sector service providers that charge fees and
: compete for my patronage than pay a direct user fee to the FAA for each use
: of Flight Watch.
:
:

Sure, I should have said govment provided service, rather than 'free', but that is the same as saying that you would
rather only ride on toll roads, rather than the freeways we have today. Some things are best as a govment service
because private providers will only do things that satisfy the profit motive.


  #39  
Old February 10th 07, 06:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: 1,477
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done


"Blueskies" wrote in message
...

Sure, I should have said govment provided service, rather than 'free', but
that is the
same as saying that you would rather only ride on toll roads, rather than
the freeways
we have today. Some things are best as a govment service because private
providers
will only do things that satisfy the profit motive.


What things provided as government services are superior to things provided
by private providers motivated by the potential for profit?


  #40  
Old February 10th 07, 06:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

The US is a direct democracy? The US government cannot ignore what the
people want?


The U.S. is an _effective_ democracy. The people have a strong influence on
how the government is run, in part because the people running the government
are largely the same as the people being governed. Statutory class
distinctions are nonexistent in the U.S. for the most part, and de facto
distinctions are rare compared to the European norm.

That makes them a class by definition.


No, it makes them a profession.

I think it helps if your name is Kennedy, Clinton or Bush, but that was
not what I was talking about anyway.


None of these familes inherited their prominence. There are no royals in the
United States, and no nobles. That's the way the country's founders wanted
it, and that's one of the things that sharply distinguishes the U.S. from
Europe.

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