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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
Take a look at Salmon Idaho KSMN, Ahehu 1 RNAV Dept (Obstacle). I
realize few aircraft are equipped to fly this, however; 1. Notice the "at 200 kt" requirement for some waypoints. Is this TAS, GS, or IAS? And a reference please if you know of one. 2. Why is the stipulation "at" instead of "at or below"? Stan |
#2
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
Looking at the chart on the AOPA website nowhere is there a speed
listed. If a speed were listed it would be IAS. wrote: Take a look at Salmon Idaho KSMN, Ahehu 1 RNAV Dept (Obstacle). I realize few aircraft are equipped to fly this, however; 1. Notice the "at 200 kt" requirement for some waypoints. Is this TAS, GS, or IAS? And a reference please if you know of one. 2. Why is the stipulation "at" instead of "at or below"? Stan |
#3
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
You have to check the NOTAMs, too:
08/014 - AHEHU ONE DEPARTURE (RNAV) (OBSTACLE) NOTE: DO NOT EXCEED 200 KIAS UNTIL FIPFE AND FANID WIE UNTIL UFN Newps wrote: Looking at the chart on the AOPA website nowhere is there a speed listed. If a speed were listed it would be IAS. |
#4
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
Jeppesen didn't do quite a bad job of charting it as NACO.
It's at or below 200 knots and the authority is the departure criteria the FAA uses. wrote: Take a look at Salmon Idaho KSMN, Ahehu 1 RNAV Dept (Obstacle). I realize few aircraft are equipped to fly this, however; 1. Notice the "at 200 kt" requirement for some waypoints. Is this TAS, GS, or IAS? And a reference please if you know of one. 2. Why is the stipulation "at" instead of "at or below"? Stan |
#5
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:19:29 -0700, B wrote:
It's at or below 200 knots and the authority is the departure criteria the FAA uses. wrote: Take a look at Salmon Idaho KSMN, Ahehu 1 RNAV Dept (Obstacle). I realize few aircraft are equipped to fly this, however; 1. Notice the "at 200 kt" requirement for some waypoints. Is this TAS, GS, or IAS? And a reference please if you know of one. 2. Why is the stipulation "at" instead of "at or below"? Stan Thanks b. For lurkers, the Jepp chart does indeed say "at 200 kt". The reference that I was looking for is the FAR or AIM that tells the pilots whether the charted speed is supposed to be TAS, GS, or IAS. I realize the notam clarifies that it is IAS, but without it, how does a pilot know? Stan |
#6
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
The AIM tells you that ATC assigns speeds in terms of IAS.
It also tells you that the speed for procedure turns is in terms of IAS. Although Part 97 and the AIM are silent on whether Approach Categories are IAS, TAS, or ground speed, how could they possibly be anything other than IAS? What about the speed limits on STAR charts? wrote: Thanks b. For lurkers, the Jepp chart does indeed say "at 200 kt". The reference that I was looking for is the FAR or AIM that tells the pilots whether the charted speed is supposed to be TAS, GS, or IAS. I realize the notam clarifies that it is IAS, but without it, how does a pilot know? Stan |
#7
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
On 09/20/07 05:52, B wrote:
The AIM tells you that ATC assigns speeds in terms of IAS. It also tells you that the speed for procedure turns is in terms of IAS. Although Part 97 and the AIM are silent on whether Approach Categories are IAS, TAS, or ground speed, how could they possibly be anything other than IAS? I'm not sure sure Part 97 is silent on the issue. It says that the categories are based on the "speed of VREF, if specified, or if VREF is not specified, 1.3 Vso at the maximum certificated landing weight". VREF and Vso are IAS references, aren't they? What about the speed limits on STAR charts? -- Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot Cal Aggie Flying Farmers Sacramento, CA |
#8
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
Mark Hansen wrote:
Although Part 97 and the AIM are silent on whether Approach Categories are IAS, TAS, or ground speed, how could they possibly be anything other than IAS? I'm not sure sure Part 97 is silent on the issue. It says that the categories are based on the "speed of VREF, if specified, or if VREF is not specified, 1.3 Vso at the maximum certificated landing weight". VREF and Vso are IAS references, aren't they? So it would seem. ;-) |
#9
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:52:54 -0700, B wrote:
The AIM tells you that ATC assigns speeds in terms of IAS. It also tells you that the speed for procedure turns is in terms of IAS. What about the speed limits on STAR charts? All good points, and from others too. However I wasn't asking about atc speeds. and the speed for procedure turns is not on the chart, although I'm not arguing about that aim specified limit. My query was about speeds listed on jeppessen charts. And I see approach categories are referenced to IAS as a poster has noted. But on the same chart where approach category minimums are stated, there is also often a descent from faf chart that is noted as in GS. Now sure, it's easy for "experts" say of course it's GS, (as noted on the chart) since distance and time cannot equal IAS, so that's obvious. But look at the case of the departure in the initial thread. The same argument "that's obvious" can be made for GS, since the obstacle clearance is based on a specified turn radius plus safety factor, and clearly GS determines radius assuming a constant bank angle and not IAS. Remember there is no annotation on the dept (jepp chart) on whether it's ias tas or GS. And for the sake of this argument let's not consider the notam (which specifies ias) in this hypothetical case. Are there other speeds on charts where it is not specified whether it is IAS TAS or GS? |
#10
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Departure Procedure jStumper Question
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