Leaseback FAQ?

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:04:11 -0600, MikeM wrote:

If you have questions after reading about 1000 previous posts on
this subject, ask again.

Thanks, Mike. I must be old-school; I searched for FAQ's for a
half-hour but didn't think to search the actual posting archive.

It might have been nice to have been clued in on some specific subject
headings, hmm?

Rob

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:45:27 -0700, Pete wrote:

In article , MikeM
wrote:

Robert Perkins wrote:
...asking for info on leasebacks.

here is my FAQ on leasebacks:

1. Should I lease my airplane to an FBO?

A: No.

Yeah, after reading here a bit (thanks Mike) that seems to be the
consensus, if what you want is convenient access to an airplane.

If what you want is to be an airplane landlord, without having to run
an FBO or flight school though, it looks like a good approach.

I think I'll look for a partnership or flying club.

To that end, then, are there any in the PDX area?

Rob

"Robert Perkins" wrote in message ...

1 -- How often to leaseback opportunities manifest themselves
generally? If this guy is really looking to lease airplanes, he might
favor me (or me and a partner) as a lessor, was my thinking. I'd hate
to pass up a really good opportunity to own an airplane.

This is NOT a good opportunity to own an airplane, and I suspect favors
are going to be hard to come buy. Leasebacks are businesses. If he
owns these planes outright, his business is in trouble. Leasebacks
are not going to save him.

2 -- Is it ever even possible for low time private pilots (under 100
hours, in my case) to get the insurance needed to do a leaseback
arrangement?

That's easy. It doesn't matter how much time you have. The insurance
isn't covering you as a pilot, it's covering the rental use of the aircraft.
You don't even need to be a pilot.

3 -- Are there any really good general descriptions or guidelines out
there of what it would take to put such a thing together?

The two major things a
1. Keeping the aircraft available for the paying customers.
2. Keeping a handle on the maintenance.

If you're really serious about it, I can go further.

4 -- How does one go about assembling the spousal-persuasion
presentation for such a harebrained idea like this? Any success
stories?

Well, I have an uncommon situation. Margy owns the aircraft, she
just lets me fly it.

Rob,

I just posted this on .piloting but you can find an index of clubs at the
landings page:

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*55953646!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/flying_clubs.html

cheers,
mark

"Robert Perkins" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:45:27 -0700, Pete wrote:

In article , MikeM
wrote:

Robert Perkins wrote:
...asking for info on leasebacks.

here is my FAQ on leasebacks:

1. Should I lease my airplane to an FBO?

A: No.

Yeah, after reading here a bit (thanks Mike) that seems to be the
consensus, if what you want is convenient access to an airplane.

If what you want is to be an airplane landlord, without having to run
an FBO or flight school though, it looks like a good approach.

I think I'll look for a partnership or flying club.

To that end, then, are there any in the PDX area?

Rob

At the FBO I fly out of, two of the owners own their own airplanes. Neither
leases back to their own business. To me, this speaks volumns about the
merits of leasebacks.


"Pete" wrote in message
...
In article , MikeM
wrote:

Robert Perkins wrote:
...asking for info on leasebacks.

here is my FAQ on leasebacks:

1. Should I lease my airplane to an FBO?

A: No.

That's it...Pete

--
Deixe-os odiar tão por muito tempo como temem

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:13:43 -0400, "Mark Astley"
wrote:

I just posted this on .piloting but you can find an index of clubs at the
landings page:

http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*55953646!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/flying_clubs.html

It's what I thought; there are precious few clubs in any part of
Oregon or Washington.

Rob

In article ,
Robert Perkins wrote:

It's what I thought; there are precious few clubs in any part of
Oregon or Washington.

If I remember, that list didn't include the Hillsboro Flying Club.
I don't think the club makes sense economically (easier and cheaper
to rent from Twin Oaks) but members like the social aspects of the
group.

What's your home airport?

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Robert Perkins wrote in
:

Snip
4 -- How does one go about assembling the spousal-persuasion
presentation for such a harebrained idea like this? Any success
stories?

Although I am not an expert in spousal-persuasion, nor in airplane Leasebacks
(although I too considered it for about a week), I believe that I am an
expert in Harebrained ideas.

Here's the way I look at it. If you continue to remain married after
purchasing a plane, your wife will probably hold it over your head for a very
long time and a variety of favors.

OTOH, if you simply divorce your wife, you may be able to reduce the total
divorce settlement by up to 50% of the money that you drain into your
airplane. Perhaps you can give the house to your wife, and keep the plane
outright, and live in the plane for a while.

The bad news is that divorce will probably be nearly as expensive as the
plane.

It is still not completely clear to me, though, which expense is more "worth
it"!

My wife has this "theory of equal and opposite spending". I'll be paying for my
ne wengine overhaul for a long time g

Judah wrote:

Robert Perkins wrote in
:

Snip
4 -- How does one go about assembling the spousal-persuasion
presentation for such a harebrained idea like this? Any success
stories?

Although I am not an expert in spousal-persuasion, nor in airplane Leasebacks
(although I too considered it for about a week), I believe that I am an
expert in Harebrained ideas.

Here's the way I look at it. If you continue to remain married after
purchasing a plane, your wife will probably hold it over your head for a very
long time and a variety of favors.

OTOH, if you simply divorce your wife, you may be able to reduce the total
divorce settlement by up to 50% of the money that you drain into your
airplane. Perhaps you can give the house to your wife, and keep the plane
outright, and live in the plane for a while.

The bad news is that divorce will probably be nearly as expensive as the
plane.

It is still not completely clear to me, though, which expense is more "worth
it"!

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

You must be newleyweds!

Seriously, though, if you have "ulterior motives" for purchasing a plane
and helping support the flight school, that's great! I would recommend you
try to figure out realistically what the total risk is, perhaps best-case,
worst-case and a "realistic expectation forecast" that is somewhere in
between. Then balance that with the reward of having a plane and keeping
the school open. Of course, this means you need to put a real $$$ value on
your reward ratio. You may also want to consider other financial
expenditures that you may use to help protect your investment (ie: perhaps
you will spend money on marketing/advertising flight training at that
school once you have a vested interest).

The nice thing about approaching it this way is that you can also prepare
an "out-plan". Basically, you can give yourself a cut-off point in advance
that says if after xxx number of months, if you are losing $yyy, it is time
to cut your losses and sell out...

Hopefully, you hit best-case, and everything works out - maybe you even
make a few bucks. But if not, and you have planned it all out, you can
protect yourself from worst case...

Essentially, as with any business, you are likely to have the most success
if you have a plan with accurate forecast models...


Robert Perkins wrote in
:

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:54:41 GMT, Judah wrote:

Robert Perkins wrote in

Here's the way I look at it. If you continue to remain married after
purchasing a plane, your wife will probably hold it over your head for
a very long time and a variety of favors.

Not her. I've got her scheduled for a Stearman ride in August. I'm
proselyting! Perhaps the day will come when she looks in my office and
says, "Have a look at this used Piper 6X! That looks like the airplane
for us!"

That's mostly what I'm going for. The leaseback thing was an idea to
keep an airplane (A Piper Cub!) on the ramp. Two other members of my
family want to learn flying, so I have a vested interest in keeping
this school alive. It's one of only two flight schools in Clark
County, Washington, and both are threatened by various levels of
apathy and animosity.

OTOH, if you simply divorce your wife, you may be able to reduce the
total divorce settlement by up to 50% of the money that you drain into
your airplane. Perhaps you can give the house to your wife, and keep
the plane outright, and live in the plane for a while.

Divorcing my wife is out of the question. I'm far too fond of her.
Fonder than I am of aviation.

Rob