Experimental Airworthiness

We have an glider that has gone through the same process.
The original Airworthy Cert was for one year and then it expired, this was
in 1980-1981.
The owner then applied for a new Cert and it has no expiration but it does
require annual "condition inspections" per the glider factory published
maintenance manual and AC43 Apx D.

Just based on what you have provided for information. I would say that your
glider has been flying since 5/5/1984 illegally. I am surprised that all of
the previous AIs signed off the condition inspection without a valid
Airworthy Certification.

Go to www.faa.gov and search for your aircraft records, you can get a copy
of everything the FAA has on file on a CD for about $10 and it takes about
two weeks to process. You can order it on line. I have done this for all of
our aircraft and for aircraft we were looking to purchase but then did not
because we found paperwork or other issues such as an unclean title. A loan
or lien against the aircraft that was never properly released.

BT

"PS" wrote in message
...
I just purchased a glider that has a Special Airworthiness Cert.,
Experimental Category, Exhibition and Racing. The "Date of Issuance"
was 5/6/1983, as was the Operating Limitations and log entry. To the
right of the Issuance date on the certificate is the "Expiry" which
shows one year later as 5/5/1984. The operating limitations makes no
mention of an expiration, in fact it has the paragraph stating that
"no person shall operate...unless condition inspections are done in
the preceding 12 months" (which would be for the second and future
years), and it mentions condition inspections (plural) are to be
recorded. The entry in the log by the same FAA Rep. makes no mention
of an expiration.

This would have me think that the intent of the FAA representative was
to make the certificate of unlimited duration as I would expect. The
FAA database also shows no problems that I can tell, such as an
expired airworthiness certificate. Is this typical to have an "Expiry"
date on the cert. or do I have an issue? I hate to lose my loose
operating limitations by having to apply again. Can anyone explain?

PS,
I had a similar experience. When I went for my first annual, the
A&I told me I needed current operating limitations for current area.
(glider came from Reno, now based in southern California). (Check Tim
Mara's post). Basically I had been flying illegally for a year. Yikes!
A call to the San Diego FSDO got it solved ASAP. I faxed the Reno
limitations, he used it as a template, and faxed me back ones for my
domicile. Sent me a new airworthiness certificate if I promised to
send him the old one back! The inspector was very casual and
nonchalant about the issue. He said the FAA is very concerned about
high performance Experimental warbirds being flown by marginally
qualified rich folks. Most FSDOs are not at all concerned about
gliders and glider pilots so your paperwork should be a breeze.

Good luck, happy soaring.

Dean

On Jun 30, 1:28*pm, PS wrote:
On Jun 30, 1:10*pm, wrote:



On Jun 30, 12:13*am, PS wrote:

I just purchased a glider that has a Special Airworthiness Cert.,
Experimental Category, Exhibition and Racing. The "Date of Issuance"
was 5/6/1983, as was the Operating Limitations and log entry. To the
right of the Issuance date on the certificate is the "Expiry" which
shows one year later as 5/5/1984. The operating limitations makes no
mention of an expiration, in fact it has the paragraph stating that
"no person shall operate...unless condition inspections are done in
the preceding 12 months" (which would be for the second and future
years), and it mentions condition inspections (plural) are to be
recorded. The entry in the log by the same FAA Rep. makes no mention
of an expiration.

This would have me think that the intent of the FAA representative was
to make the certificate of unlimited duration as I would expect. The
FAA database also shows no problems that I can tell, such as an
expired airworthiness certificate. Is this typical to have an "Expiry"
date on the cert. or do I have an issue? I hate to lose my loose
operating limitations by having to apply again. Can anyone explain?

Reading of text will probably show that this date is 12 months to the
day from issuance.
This requires condition inspection after which it would be good for 12
months to the day.
read the paragrapg related to condition inspection.
Duration, other than that condition, was unlimited and none had
geographical limitations, to my knowledge.
All of that changed when new rules were published effective 7/9/97.
After that time, the current requirements
to be controlled by your local district office, area limitatiions,
etc., went into effect.
DON'T lose your old limitations, you likely would not get them again.
That said, read what the text says and comply.
Good luck
UH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks UH, I like your interpretation best. I would feel more
comfortable with this if the operating limitations more clearly stated
that a condition inspection would extend the special airworthiness
cert. for another 12 months. Are you saying that since the operating
limitations do not state an expiration, but instead state that
condition inspections are required every 12 months, that this
supersedes the expiration date shown on the airworthiness certificate
(which was one year from the issue date)?? Is there an FAA Order or an
FAA rep. that can clarify this?

FAA Order 8130.2Fchg3, Section 10, para 155b
b. Air Racing. Operating an aircraft to demonstrate its flight
characteristics or capabilities in
connection with sales promotions for the aircraft is not considered to
be an eligible operational purpose
under the air racing category. A certificate for experimental air
racing must only be issued when an
aircraft is to be used for valid air racing purposes. The duration of
an airworthiness certificate for
air racing is unlimited.

Group I and ALL apply throughout the order.

Post moratorium aircraft require new operating limitations upon change
of owner or FSDO, but the airworthy should travel, except in some
cases where the prior owner neglected to sign off Phase 1;^)

Frank Whiteley

On Jun 30, 1:15*pm, wrote:
On Jun 30, 3:28*pm, PS wrote:





On Jun 30, 1:10*pm, wrote:

On Jun 30, 12:13*am, PS wrote:

I just purchased a glider that has a Special Airworthiness Cert.,
Experimental Category, Exhibition and Racing. The "Date of Issuance"
was 5/6/1983, as was the Operating Limitations and log entry. To the
right of the Issuance date on the certificate is the "Expiry" which
shows one year later as 5/5/1984. The operating limitations makes no
mention of an expiration, in fact it has the paragraph stating that
"no person shall operate...unless condition inspections are done in
the preceding 12 months" (which would be for the second and future
years), and it mentions condition inspections (plural) are to be
recorded. The entry in the log by the same FAA Rep. makes no mention
of an expiration.

This would have me think that the intent of the FAA representative was
to make the certificate of unlimited duration as I would expect. The
FAA database also shows no problems that I can tell, such as an
expired airworthiness certificate. Is this typical to have an "Expiry"
date on the cert. or do I have an issue? I hate to lose my loose
operating limitations by having to apply again. Can anyone explain?

Reading of text will probably show that this date is 12 months to the
day from issuance.
This requires condition inspection after which it would be good for 12
months to the day.
read the paragrapg related to condition inspection.
Duration, other than that condition, was unlimited and none had
geographical limitations, to my knowledge.
All of that changed when new rules were published effective 7/9/97.
After that time, the current requirements
to be controlled by your local district office, area limitatiions,
etc., went into effect.
DON'T lose your old limitations, you likely would not get them again.
That said, read what the text says and comply.
Good luck
UH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks UH, I like your interpretation best. I would feel more
comfortable with this if the operating limitations more clearly stated
that a condition inspection would extend the special airworthiness
cert. for another 12 months. Are you saying that since the operating
limitations do not state an expiration, but instead state that
condition inspections are required every 12 months, that this
supersedes the expiration date shown on the airworthiness certificate
(which was one year from the issue date)?? Is there an FAA Order or an
FAA rep. that can clarify this?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

To be safe, you could take your docs to your local district office for
interpretation.
That said, you might not like what they say. These days they really
want to control activity on Experimental- Exhibition and Air Racing
licensed ships.
I would be surprised if you certificate is not unlimited, subject to
condition inspections.
UH
I- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know a lot about Experimental Limitations. Mine is an old 1974
version.
But rather than walking into the FSDO cold I would ask around the
local glider pilots or experimental amaetur builders about who to talk
to.
Perhaps a DAR ( I forget exactly what it stands for other than it is
Designated (not FAA employee) person who can issue a new registration)
would be a better option than just walking into the FSDO. Find someone
that has a history of being reasonable to work with. Some FSDO's are
very good
some are less so. So do you homework about what works best in you
local area.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL