Back to square one on buying an Arrow

Jack,

Why don't you guys go fly a Mooney and see what you think. It sounds
like it fits your mission profile and it would give you a bunch more
airplanes to look at? Just my prejudiced opinion. :-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201

Jack Allison wrote:
We got closer this time. We actually had our verbal offer accepted.
That's progress (for this, the 2nd offer we've made on an Arrow).

Things were going well into the weekend. I'd tweaked the prepurchase
agreement from the seller, made plane reservations to fly out and
see/fly/touch/smell the plane, setup the pre-buy inspection, provided a
preliminary timeline to the seller...phew, lots of work.

Sunday evening, I sent the modified prepurchase agreement to the seller
along with a proposed timeline for the pre-buy. Monday evening...wham,
the seller suddenly decides things are out of hand. I get a left hook
to the chin e-mail, completely out of the blue with all sorts of
concerns and a final suggestion that maybe it's better if everyone walks
away from the deal. Whaaaaa...huh???? Houston, we have a problem.

I called my partners and their opinion is pretty much "fine, we keep
looking"...but...I'm not ready to walk just yet. I checked into the
possibility of moving the pre-buy up a day and/or my travel out a day in
order to make a better overall timeline. It's a no-go on both accounts
so the only option is to stick with the original plans. By this point,
I know it's a dead deal. It's just a matter of confirming that fact
with the seller. The seller and I finally talk via phone and, as
expected, we're done. Oh, he gives me a line "If you can rearrange your
travel and the plane is still available, sure, call me back". Ya,
whatever.

Actually, I'm fine with everything. As many folks have advised me,
you've got to be able to walk away if things go south or just don't feel
right. Sure, it's frustrating to spend so much time only to walk away
in the end but, really, given how things suddenly came unglued on this
deal, I'd rather not buy this particular plane.

Ah, this airplane buying stuff...it's a hoot! :-)

Jim,

If you really wanted to buy an Aztec from Central Texas, I would have
sold you mine! Still will. And I promise that you won't find that I'm
in trouble with the Feds or anybody connected with a bank. Although
my banker would like it better if I sold the Aztec and put the money in his
bank :-)

Don't both you and your partner each need your own Aztec? :-)

Ronnie

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
Either he doesn't want to sell or he got a higher offer since you made
yours. This guy just doesn't sound straight up. Along those crooked
lines,
a quick story about our search...

I found an Aztec that sounded perfect for us. It was in Central Texas but
being sold by the Bank of Boston, in NY. Called the number for the
seller,
he could barely speak English and was not interested in talking to me. So
I
looked up the N number and called the registered owner in Texas. He was
"in
the shower" for 3 days, but his wife was rather pleasant. I did a net
search for other family members and discovered his son was also a pilot,
and
in the same town. Called his son and he wouldn't talk about the plane, he
just referred me to the Bank. So I'm thinking it was repossessed and
these
guys are broke and ****ed off at the bank.

I dug further and found out that the son and father owned a bank
themselves
in Texas. I did a search on their bank and discovered that they as well
as
their wives had just been banned by the Feds from working at any bank due
to
misappropriation of bank funds. Seems they were using bank money to go on
vacations allll over the country, then not paying the bank back!

What appeared to be a great plane at a fair price quickly turned into a
soap
opera that we ran, not walked, away from.

Jim

On 9 Mar 2005 12:20:06 -0800, "
wrote:

Recently I've seen a fairly novel approach. Someone who was looking
for a good Cherokee 180 got the FAA owners list and sent postcards to
the owners. He also requested that if the recipient knew of anyone
that had a 180 for sale, to please pass on the contact info. I called
the guy because I knew of one for sale in a neighboring state. He'd
already found one, but shared his search method with me. To keep costs
down, he started off by sending cards to 180 owners in his home state.
Next he sent them to owners in states bordering his. The third mailing
expanded the search radius by one more state. He got lucky on the
third mailing.


Interesting technique. I get a lot of similarly worded postcards from
brokers though, so I usually just pitch them.

Hey Ronnie,
Thanks for the offer, but the one we have has us pretty well occupied.
A nice SuperCub or SuperCruiser might raise my interest as a second plane
though.
Jim

Hmmm, this is getting interesting. Nice ideas Jim & John. I'm just now
downloading the database (after finally finding it on the FAA
website...took some searching). If anyone is interested, the database
is he http://registry.faa.gov/ardata.asp According to Mozilla's
download manager, I have to wait another 10 minutes for it to finish.

I'm so tired of looking at TAP, ASO, Controller, etc. A little data
mangling exercise seems like a nice diversion. Many thanks and I'll
keep you guys posted.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Ron Natalie wrote:

Yeah, but better than going out there and deciding the plane isn't
worth buying. I burned up one set of airline tickets heading out
to Kalamazoo to look at a plane. Had to use a second set to go
to Wisconsin to look at the one we bought.

That's pretty much what I figure too Ron. It cost us an extra $100 to
use the tickets I have and I've tied up a couple hundred bucks in
pre-buying my next flight. Could be much worse.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Sure Jon, bring your Mooney out to the left coast for a little demo
flight. Just think, you could get a ton of x-c flying in, enjoy our
nice weather, get some great mountain flying experience, etc. Hey,
works for me! :-)

Seriously though, we've toyed with looking at a few other planes but not
really seriously. For me, it's just easier to focus on a particular
plane. Did that when I was hunting down Cardinals and am doing the same
now with Arrows. Doesn't mean we won't explore other options though.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Nathan Young wrote:

Interesting technique. I get a lot of similarly worded postcards
from
brokers though, so I usually just pitch them.

So do I. The individual who sent the postcards must have realized
this too. In bold letters on the top of the card it said, "I am not a
Broker!". Then it went on to explain that he was an individual buyer
looking for a good airplane.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

I burned through several looking at Aeronca Champs. I finally decided

that there no longer exists any that meet the FAA's definition of
airworthy (AD's).

There are plenty. They cost $25K-$35K.

Michael

Rather than buying an Arrow, perhaps you'd want to look at a Mooney.
I've had both and like the Mooney better hands down. The Mooney has a
MUCH simpler gear system with less headaches. The cabin width is the
same. The cabin length is the same (both Mooney and Piper added an
extra 10 inches in the late 60's early 70's). If you compare Arrows to
Mooneys of the same year, the only difference is the Mooney is going 15
knots faster and can fly higher. You're flying behind the same O-360 or
IO-360 engine, same prop etc. The Mooney has a stronger airframe but
still usually gives you around 1000 lbs of useful load (don't talk
about full fuel, its not Mooney's fault that they can carry extra
fuel).
All the silly stories you hear about the Mooney turn out to be false.
They are not harder to fly. They are *NOT* harder for tall pilots (I'm
6'4" and actually think I have more leg room in the Mooney). The back
seat size is 100% the same (comparing same years). I've had 4 large
guys in my plane, and even sat in the back and its doable (although
tight). All in all the Mooney is just a bit better, kinda like a
Cherokee is a bit better than a 172. The Mooney can come down the ILS
at 737 speeds when necessary for busy airports too (I actually had to
slow for one once!!).

-Robert, CFI