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#1
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Why do gyros use tilt head rather than swashplate
Would a gyro with a swashplate ( just for pitch control) fly any different
(better,worse) than using a tilt type rotor head? Just more complex? Also, I've seen some photos of early kit helicopters that appear to have just a tilting head (no way to auto-rotate ?). Isn't this a bit of a death wish? Does a helicopter need to have collective pitch for anything other than auto-rotaion? Silly questions, but it's a late night. |
#2
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"Rhodesst" wrote in message ... Power adjustments. Wally Power adjustments? I don't see the difference a swashplate over a tilt head for cyclic control would make to a gyros rotor system. Care to explain further? OTOH, I think that sport gyros today use the tilt rotor hub because it's a very simple design, and it works very well. No swashplate and associated linkages, not to mention the fact that there's no need for individual feathering hinges on the rotor blades themselves. Much less to go wrong and/or maintain. JMO, Fly Safe, Steve R. The K.I.S.S. formula at it's best. So why not on a helicopter? (Like those old kits I mentioned). I'm assuming because you'd lose auto-rotation? |
#3
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In article ,
"Phillip" wrote: "Rhodesst" wrote in message ... Power adjustments. Wally Power adjustments? I don't see the difference a swashplate over a tilt head for cyclic control would make to a gyros rotor system. Care to explain further? OTOH, I think that sport gyros today use the tilt rotor hub because it's a very simple design, and it works very well. No swashplate and associated linkages, not to mention the fact that there's no need for individual feathering hinges on the rotor blades themselves. Much less to go wrong and/or maintain. JMO, Fly Safe, Steve R. The K.I.S.S. formula at it's best. So why not on a helicopter? (Like those old kits I mentioned). I'm assuming because you'd lose auto-rotation? The basic principle of autogyro flight is auto-rotation. What you'd lose is a simple, practical way of controlling powered flight. -- Paul Baechler |
#4
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On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:21:13 -0700, "Phillip" wrote:
Would a gyro with a swashplate ( just for pitch control) fly any different (better,worse) than using a tilt type rotor head? Just more complex? Just more complex. The net effect would be the same. Increase the angle of attack 90 degrees before desired disc upward movement, decrease AoA 90 degrees before. Gyroscopic precession then makes the desire movement happen. Also, I've seen some photos of early kit helicopters that appear to have just a tilting head (no way to auto-rotate ?). Isn't this a bit of a death wish? Does a helicopter need to have collective pitch for anything other than auto-rotaion? Helicopter collective increase/decreases pitch angle of all blades collectively and thereby increases/decreases lift. Pull collective up, go up. lower collective, go down. It's a bit more complex than that, but I'll leave that to the experts here. Silly questions, but it's a late night. Phil -- Definitions of a pilot - No. 1 The average pilot, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring. These feelings just don't involve anybody else. US Navy Times |
#5
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On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:43:27 +1000, Phil Miller
wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:21:13 -0700, "Phillip" wrote: Would a gyro with a swashplate ( just for pitch control) fly any different (better,worse) than using a tilt type rotor head? Just more complex? Just more complex. The net effect would be the same. Increase the angle of attack 90 degrees before desired disc upward movement, decrease AoA 90 degrees before. Gyroscopic precession then makes the desire movement ^^^^^^ happen. Woops. After. Also, I've seen some photos of early kit helicopters that appear to have just a tilting head (no way to auto-rotate ?). Isn't this a bit of a death wish? Does a helicopter need to have collective pitch for anything other than auto-rotaion? Helicopter collective increase/decreases pitch angle of all blades collectively and thereby increases/decreases lift. Pull collective up, go up. lower collective, go down. It's a bit more complex than that, but I'll leave that to the experts here. Silly questions, but it's a late night. Phil Phil -- "Me fail english? That's unpossible!" Ralph Wiggum |
#6
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"Phillip" wrote in
: Also, I've seen some photos of early kit helicopters that appear to have just a tilting head (no way to auto-rotate ?). Isn't this a bit of a death wish? Does a helicopter need to have collective pitch for anything other than auto-rotaion? Helicopters depend on collective pitch for control of power - they have no other way to fly. Without collective pitch, you can't get off the ground, or change power, or get back on the ground in one piece. -- Regards, Stan |
#7
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Stan Gosnell wrote:
"Phillip" wrote in : Also, I've seen some photos of early kit helicopters that appear to have just a tilting head (no way to auto-rotate ?). Isn't this a bit of a death wish? Does a helicopter need to have collective pitch for anything other than auto-rotaion? Helicopters depend on collective pitch for control of power - they have no other way to fly. Without collective pitch, you can't get off the ground, or change power, or get back on the ground in one piece. IIRC, at least the first Piasecki helo and maybe the first Hiller lacked collective pitch. Lift was controlled by the throttle (which controlled the engine and thus rotor rpm), and they seemed to have flown just fine. There are clearly advantages to the collective system as later models all included it, but it's not as if a helo has to have one to fly. Guy |
#8
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"Guy Alcala" wrote in message . .. Stan Gosnell wrote: "Phillip" wrote in : Also, I've seen some photos of early kit helicopters that appear to have just a tilting head (no way to auto-rotate ?). Isn't this a bit of a death wish? Does a helicopter need to have collective pitch for anything other than auto-rotaion? Helicopters depend on collective pitch for control of power - they have no other way to fly. Without collective pitch, you can't get off the ground, or change power, or get back on the ground in one piece. IIRC, at least the first Piasecki helo and maybe the first Hiller lacked collective pitch. Lift was controlled by the throttle (which controlled the engine and thus rotor rpm), and they seemed to have flown just fine. There are clearly advantages to the collective system as later models all included it, but it's not as if a helo has to have one to fly. Guy I guess what I wondered was , other than a need to auto-rotate, a tilt system would work on a helicopter the same as a gyro? Yes I know auto-rotation is needed...I'm just wounding if the concept is the same. That's what these kits mentioned (it's been a long time), you added power to go up, remove power to come down...seems simple enough. Don't think I'd like the idea of no collective control for auto-rotation. |
#9
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The only problem with the A&S was a severe limitation on the operation at the local field because of noise restrictions - it sure was a loud bird. Hmm, at Farrington Airpark? I think someone was pulling your leg. I've never heard of any noise restrictions there. It's kind of in the boondocks anyway. And, for that matter, there is a stock car track about one hundred yards from the strip (the strip actually began life as a drag strip until Don bought it). Anyway all those cars are one heck of a lot louder than an 18A. Stephen Austin Austin Ag Aviation Charleston, Missouri |
#10
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"Stephen Austin" wrote in message
... The only problem with the A&S was a severe limitation on the operation at the local field because of noise restrictions - it sure was a loud bird. Hmm, at Farrington Airpark? I think someone was pulling your leg. I've never heard of any noise restrictions there. It's kind of in the boondocks anyway. And, for that matter, there is a stock car track about one hundred yards from the strip (the strip actually began life as a drag strip until Don bought it). Anyway all those cars are one heck of a lot louder than an 18A. Stephen Austin Austin Ag Aviation Charleston, Missouri Nope. My A&S 18A lesson was in NJ, but I forget the town. Even though the airstrip was in the Western (less populated portion of the state - rural, actually), the local residents were the highly paid, city-commuter types (NYC) and, apparently both vocal and influential. The 18A clearly was louder than the other planes (typical spam can range, plus a goodly amount of low-powered Cubs, Champs, etc.) - it definitely stood out during ops. Michael Pilla |
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