Flaps on take-off and landing

Is it a rainy day where you are Jose? Its lousy here.

After some really nice days, yes, it's duck weather.

these "intellitecual exchanges" we get into on RAP
only happen when we're not flying

Only when we're not using airplanes.

The truth is that pilots are most likely
and collectively natural born punsters.

Probably, but I wouldn't get in a flap about it.

Jose
--
I fly all the time. Sometimes I use an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
. ..
Is it a rainy day where you are Jose? Its lousy here.

After some really nice days, yes, it's duck weather.

these "intellitecual exchanges" we get into on RAP only happen when we're
not flying

Only when we're not using airplanes.

The truth is that pilots are most likely and collectively natural born
punsters.

Probably, but I wouldn't get in a flap about it.

Jose

Yes, that would most likely prop up the issue wouldn't it?
DH

B A R R Y wrote:
Ross Richardson wrote:


During my commerical check ride I was coming up
a little short on a similated engine out and pointed the nose down to
gain airspeed. Work just find and landed right on the numbers.


I'm guessing that you were below best glide speed at the time?

I was on very short final and didn't look like I would make it
otherwise. That is why I like to plan high now and slip.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Flap extension does cause an immediate (manual flaps)
increase in lift, rotating the aircraft also increases lift
but the flaps seem to work better in the case of just
"jumping" a few feet because they also lower the stall speed
giving a slightly greater margin at the same energy level.



"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 122...
| Jim Macklin wrote
| Flap extension reduces the stalling speed, often only a
few
| knots, but lift increases as does drag. The airplane
will
| balloon and slow very fast, the extra distance and
altitude
| gained is only a few feet, but if all you need is to
clear a
| 5 foot cattle fence or a 10 foot wide ditch, that is a
| technique that is useful.
|
| Can't create energy out of thin air Jim. You would clear
the
| same 5 foot fence just by increasing the angle of attack
and
| in both cases, glide a shorter distance if you were at
best
| L/D to start with.
|
| Bob Moore

The Beech T tails are very nice to fly, big enough and out
of prop and downwash.


wrote in message
ups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| But the flaps move the center of lift aft on the wing
and
| you need back elevator pressure to force the main gear
| (trike) or tailwheel on the ground to prevent weather
vaning
| and skidding the wheels under braking. The flaps will
tend
| to lift the lift the tail and you need to follow through
on
| the flare to lever the balance point on the main gear.
|
| Airplanes like the 150, 172 and 182 will pitch up
on flap
| application. The downwash off the flaps stikes the stab
and pushes the
| tail down. A 185 or Glastar will pitch down; I suppose the
lower
| position of the stab has something to do with it.
|
| I once owned an Auster AOP 6. It had no pitch
change with
| flap application, and those flaps were serious big Zap
flaps. The
| elevator had two trim tabs: one was the usual
manually-operated tab,
| and the other was connected to the flap mechanism to zero
out any pitch
| changes when the flaps were raised or lowered. That old
airplane would
| land in 200' (half of book figures) if an approach was
made at 1.1 Vso
| and the Johnson-bar flaps were suddenly raised just before
the wheels
| hit the grass. Why did we need to put electric flaps in
small
| airplanes? Same technique works in the 185.
| The Auster's brakes, on the other hand, were less
than
| enthusiastic, so one could clamp them on before touchdown
and really
| get ahead of the game.
| Not that I'm recommending that Auster owners go
try it...
|
| Dan
|

They are an amazing airplane. In some parts of the world,
Helio floatplanes operate as long as the floats are level
and the top is not under water. The level part is a good
idea because it check balance [CG] but the floats are over
sized so they do get a little heavy.


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| On dry ground the H295 would take-off in as little as
two
| airplane lengths. The factory had a grass strip next to
the
| assembly building. They would land and take-off day in
and
| out, from the 300 feet of grass, even with straight EDO
| floats.
|
|
|
| Jungle Aviation and Radio Service has their own field in
Waxhaw, NC called
| JAARS-Townsend. I used to go over there just to watch the
Helio Courier pilots
| do their stuff. It was absolutely amazing.
|
| They'd stand on the brakes, go to full power, pop the tail
up in one length, and
| be airborne in another. I suspect you could sprint
alongside it and keep up for
| a few seconds.
|
| The Helio didn't just climb out of impossibly short
strips... it had six seats
| and could carry a load.
|
| JAARS is a missionary outfit, if anybody wonders. They
used to have missions in
| New Guinea and down in South America... don't know about
now. They also
| operated DC-3s and some other birds (can't remember now).
|
|
|
|
| --
| Mortimer Schnerd, RN
| mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
|
|

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:54:28 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote in :

Peter Duniho writes:

IMHO, since you're not actually flying an airplane, I wouldn't worry about
it. Put the flaps down whenever you want.

The idea is to try to approach real life. Additionally, many things
are simulated. If adjusting flaps has a bad effect in real life,
there's a good chance that it has a bad effect in simulation as well.

Are you aware that you are discussing this with one of the programmers
who wrote MS Flight Simulator?

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


Jungle Aviation and Radio Service has their own field in Waxhaw, NC called
JAARS-Townsend. I used to go over there just to watch the Helio Courier pilots
do their stuff. It was absolutely amazing.

They'd stand on the brakes, go to full power, pop the tail up in one length, and
be airborne in another. I suspect you could sprint alongside it and keep up for
a few seconds.

The Helio didn't just climb out of impossibly short strips... it had six seats
and could carry a load.

JAARS is a missionary outfit, if anybody wonders. They used to have missions in
New Guinea and down in South America... don't know about now. They also
operated DC-3s and some other birds (can't remember now).

Still doing it. See http://www.jaars.org/aviation04/avia_home.shtml

They use a short-field landing technique in the Helio that
involves a minimum approach speed, touchdown on the mains, raise the
tail high, use a little power to maintain elevator authority and use
heavy braking, keeping the tail way high to get rid of the lift and put
lots of weight on the mains. The prop isn't far off the surface. I was
taught the same thing in the 185, and it'll stop in way under published
figures. Very unnerving the first few times.
Those Helios are pretty old, and JAARS has been
manufacturing parts for them under FAA-PMA approval to keep them alive.
They also have serial number 1 in their fleet. They will soon start
replacing them with the Quest Kodiak.

Dan

Dan

LOL. Good one.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:46:45 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

And a Playboy magazine is safer than sex.

GeorgeC

Skylune wrote:
No. You are right. Too expensive, relatively risky, and VFR flying lacks
utility. VFR is a risky and completely unreliable means of
transportation.

You are smart sticking to the sim.


If that's really what he believes, then yes, he should stick to the sim.