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"Rick Maddy" wrote in message om... I wish to begin gathering UNEMOTIONAL, tangible pros and cons on engine choices for my Cozy Mk IV. I won't be ready to begin working on my firewall for about 12 more months. As I see it today I have the following engine choices: Lycoming 360 or XP-360 Mazda 13B or Renesis Jabiru 5100 Subaru ??? My background: - I don't know squat about engines - all I know is that they are big, heavy, expensive, you add gas and oil, and it makes the big fan go Issues I DO NOT want to discuss at this time: - Resale value - Religious discussions of using "standard" aircraft engine vs. auto conversion. Here are some questions I have at this time: 1) Fuel - Can the XP-360 use autogas? Can the listed auto engines use 100LL? For those of you using an auto engine - how do you get autogas to your plane? 2) While I hope to learn a lot more about my engine, whichever I choose, I don't expect to learn enough to do all work myself when it comes to maintenance. Obviously, the XP-360 can be repaired at most airports. For those with auto engines, what options do you have for repair? 3) Living in Denver, I expect to fly above 10,000' quite a bit. Am I going to want a turbo auto engine? What is equivilent for the XP-360? Here is my current list of Pros/Cons for XP-360 vs. auto engine: XP-360 Pros: Fairly standard, mostly plans install. Improvement over true Lycoming. Get repairs at most airports. Get 100LL any airport. Cons: Expensive repairs. Auto Engine Pros: Newer technology. Much cheaper repair. Cheaper parts at local auto parts store. Cons: Smaller knowledge base. Huge deviation from plans install. Might need custom cowling. Where to get repairs? Where to get gas? Comparisons that I see as a wash: - Initial installation costs will end up being about the same. - Installed weight/CG will be about the same. - I know nothing about either so I have the same amount to learn. I'm sure I'm missing some things here (and that is why I'm asking for help). Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I don't want to start religious battles with this thread. Thank you all for the help. __________________ Rick Maddy Denver, CO Cozy Mk IV #824 - Chapter 19 http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy IF, as you say, you don't know "squat" about engines, you'll have a bad time trying to engineer a custom engine installation. I know it is attractive to think you can save money on the initial engine cost (or subsequent fuel cost) by using an alternate engine instead of a lycoming 0-320 or 0-360. However, if your goal is to build a flying, traveling, airplane, you'll be happier with the lycoming. You won't have to engineer a custom engine mount, custom cooling and fuel systems, custom cable routings, custom electrical system, etc. You won't have to do the follow-on development work when/if your engineering wasn't quite good enough and the engine didn't run right on your first test flight. Also, with a lycoming, when it breaks (all engines and/or systems do - usually in somewhere the other side of Timbuktu), you will be able to call a dozen different vendors and get THE part you need Fed-Ex'ed to you the next day. I have an 0-320 in my RV-6, and missed SnF a couple of years ago because my neato electronic ignition died the day before the show, and the only guy in the world with replacement parts was already at the show. I couldn't get in touch with him to diagnose the problem or have parts shipped. That's the kind of thing you run into with oddball *critical* equipment on your airplane... A fellow EAA'er just spend a YEAR post first flight working out development issues with his auto conversion. He had the engine and other systems running on a bench several years before he went flying, and still had plenty of difficulties. Unless you're a tinkerer, not a flyer, go with a fully developed engine installation. KB |
#2
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Again, please keep answers and suggestions as objective as possible. I don't want to start religious battles with this thread. Thank you all for the help. Rick Maddy IF, as you say, you don't know "squat" about engines, you'll have a bad time trying to engineer a custom engine installation. I know it is attractive to think you can save money on the initial engine cost (or subsequent fuel cost) by using an alternate engine instead of a lycoming 0-320 or 0-360. However, if your goal is to build a flying, traveling, airplane, you'll be happier with the lycoming. You won't have to engineer a custom engine mount, custom cooling and fuel systems, custom cable routings, custom electrical system, etc. You won't have to do the follow-on development work when/if your engineering wasn't quite good enough and the engine didn't run right on your first test flight. Also, with a lycoming, when it breaks (all engines and/or systems do - usually in somewhere the other side of Timbuktu), you will be able to call a dozen different vendors and get THE part you need Fed-Ex'ed to you the next day. I have an 0-320 in my RV-6, and missed SnF a couple of years ago because my neato electronic ignition died the day before the show, and the only guy in the world with replacement parts was already at the show. I couldn't get in touch with him to diagnose the problem or have parts shipped. That's the kind of thing you run into with oddball *critical* equipment on your airplane... A fellow EAA'er just spend a YEAR post first flight working out development issues with his auto conversion. He had the engine and other systems running on a bench several years before he went flying, and still had plenty of difficulties. Unless you're a tinkerer, not a flyer, go with a fully developed engine installation. KB +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DAMN, Kyle !!!! Have I died and gone to heaven? g Barnyard BOb -- Over 50 years of flight |
#3
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On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 13:48:57 -0500, Barnyard BOb --
wrote: DAMN, Kyle !!!! Have I died and gone to heaven? g Yes on one, no on two. Ron "Laugh-a while you can, Monkey-Boy!" Wanttaja |
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DAMN, Kyle !!!! Have I died and gone to heaven? g Yes on one, no on two. Ron "Laugh-a while you can, Monkey-Boy!" Wanttaja +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yes, Ron. Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input. Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH while I have some positive momentum. NAH.... No way. ;-) Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs |
#5
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On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:02:28 -0500, Barnyard BOb -- wrote:
DAMN, Kyle !!!! Have I died and gone to heaven? g Yes on one, no on two. Ron "Laugh-a while you can, Monkey-Boy!" Wanttaja +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yes, Ron. Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input. Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH while I have some positive momentum. NAH.... No way. ;-) Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs I will admit that I was quite disturbed to find myself in agreement with BOb for once. I'm hoping that means he is becoming more like me and not the converse -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ e-mail: khorton02(_at_)rogers(_dot_)com |
#6
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In article , Barnyard BOb --
writes: Yes, Ron. Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input. Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH while I have some positive momentum. NAH.... No way. ;-) Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs Don't you dare retire from RAH, who would we have to pick on then? Bob Reed www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site) KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress.... "Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!" (M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman) |
#7
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It worked for me, Unk.
John Stricker "Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message ... Yes, Ron. Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input. Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH while I have some positive momentum. NAH.... No way. ;-) Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs |
#8
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Yes, Ron. Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input. Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH while I have some positive momentum. NAH.... No way. ;-) Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs It worked for me, Unk. John Stricker ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi nephew John, Long time no hear. I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they announced on TeeVee that a chopper with 7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO. So far, it appears to be a hoax. P.S. I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs. However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!! Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave the peckerwoods to feed on each other. g Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U. |
#9
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Don't be embarrassed about cheering for my beloved Chiefs. Come out of the
closet once and for all. 8-) You should read the whining by the Donk fans in the Chief's newsgroup. Priceless. John "Long lost nephew" Stricker "Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message ... Yes, Ron. Bless Kevin and Kyle for their thoughtful input. Perhaps it's time to retire from RAH while I have some positive momentum. NAH.... No way. ;-) Barnyard BOb -- 3 cheers for today's Kansas City Chiefs It worked for me, Unk. John Stricker ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi nephew John, Long time no hear. I wuz thinking of you just yesterday when they announced on TeeVee that a chopper with 7 souls aboard went down in Columbia MO. So far, it appears to be a hoax. P.S. I'm embarrassed that you caught me cheering for YOUR Chiefs. However, what a fabulously outstanding feetball game !!!!!!!!!!! Maybe, it really is time to bow out and leave the peckerwoods to feed on each other. g Unk aka Barnyard BOb aka BOb U. |
#10
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"John Stricker" wrote in message ...
It worked for me, Unk. Except of course when you air up your "re-tires" for a drive-by posting How's the plane building coming along in that gorgeous shop o' yours? How's Chris's car? and did you finish your CFI yet? Cheers, Sydney |
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