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How long before /G required for IFR?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 25th 05, 04:55 PM
Colin W Kingsbury
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Default How long before /G required for IFR?

Just read in aopa weekly mail today that the FAA is considering shutting
down the BDL (Bradley, Hartford CT) and PVD (Providence RI) VORs.

These are not exactly podunk navaids. Both are located at Class C fields
with substantial airline traffic (not just RJs either) and they support a
decent number of airways and approaches. To be fair, VORs are not exactly in
short supply in the Northeast, so this won't have a devastating effect,
though it will make outages more critical.

I fly a 172N and with 2 NAV/COMs, ADF, and an M1 Loran I can get around this
part of the country pretty well. Other than getting DME capability there
hasn't been a pressing reason to add an IFR GPS to a $40,000 plane. But, how
much longer will it be before /G is a de facto requirement? Already when I
fly IFR (filed /U) controllers give me instructions ("proceed direct
foobar") that require GPS, so I suppose us non-golf folks are becoming a
rare species. How long before we're extinct?

Best,
-cwk.


  #2  
Old February 26th 05, 12:15 AM
Michael
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But, how much longer will it be before /G is a de facto requirement?

IMO, more than 5 years but less than 15.

Already when I fly IFR (filed /U) controllers give me instructions
("proceed direct foobar") that require GPS


Well, they don't really. I bet you can do that with the M1 LORAN. Or
you could if it didn't come with a placard limiting it to VFR use only.
A handheld GPS will not come with such a placard, and there's no rule
that says you can't use it for enroute IFR (anyone who says otherwise
is welcome to quote chapter and verse from the approriate regulation -
NOT an advisory circular or AIM).

Since almost everyone who flies IFR has at least a handheld GPS, why
wouldn't ATC take advantage of this?

The real issue is when will approach GPS become a necessity pracitcal
necessity? I suspect that as VOR's and NDB's are decomissioned, more
and more airports will have nothing but GPS. The big airports will
always have ILS, and those will become our only legal alternates, but
for GA IFR flying, GPS will become a necessity.

Michael

  #3  
Old February 26th 05, 08:04 AM
NW_PILOT
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Default


"Michael" wrote in message
ups.com...
But, how much longer will it be before /G is a de facto requirement?


IMO, more than 5 years but less than 15.

Already when I fly IFR (filed /U) controllers give me instructions
("proceed direct foobar") that require GPS


Well, they don't really. I bet you can do that with the M1 LORAN. Or
you could if it didn't come with a placard limiting it to VFR use only.
A handheld GPS will not come with such a placard, and there's no rule
that says you can't use it for enroute IFR (anyone who says otherwise
is welcome to quote chapter and verse from the approriate regulation -
NOT an advisory circular or AIM).

Since almost everyone who flies IFR has at least a handheld GPS, why
wouldn't ATC take advantage of this?

The real issue is when will approach GPS become a necessity pracitcal
necessity? I suspect that as VOR's and NDB's are decomissioned, more
and more airports will have nothing but GPS. The big airports will
always have ILS, and those will become our only legal alternates, but
for GA IFR flying, GPS will become a necessity.

Michael



Go fly in the plains states most the GA airports have GPS only IFR approach
and not many VOR's or many other nav aid's and the Vor's that are our in
Eastern MT And Western ND well if you have 1,500' cellings good luck picking
them up.



  #4  
Old February 26th 05, 02:17 PM
Dan Thompson
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This is an old horse and I almost hate to bring it up again, but are you
aware you can legally accept direct FUBAR as a /U under IFR, and monitor
your progress with a handheld GPS?

Currently the only reason one ever needs an IFR GPS is to fly a GPS
approach. To answer your question, then, /G will be de facto required FOR
YOU when there are airports you want to go to IFR, in weather that requires
an approach, that only have that kind of approach.

"Colin W Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...
Just read in aopa weekly mail today that the FAA is considering shutting
down the BDL (Bradley, Hartford CT) and PVD (Providence RI) VORs.

These are not exactly podunk navaids. Both are located at Class C fields
with substantial airline traffic (not just RJs either) and they support a
decent number of airways and approaches. To be fair, VORs are not exactly
in
short supply in the Northeast, so this won't have a devastating effect,
though it will make outages more critical.

I fly a 172N and with 2 NAV/COMs, ADF, and an M1 Loran I can get around
this
part of the country pretty well. Other than getting DME capability there
hasn't been a pressing reason to add an IFR GPS to a $40,000 plane. But,
how
much longer will it be before /G is a de facto requirement? Already when I
fly IFR (filed /U) controllers give me instructions ("proceed direct
foobar") that require GPS, so I suppose us non-golf folks are becoming a
rare species. How long before we're extinct?

Best,
-cwk.




  #5  
Old February 26th 05, 03:44 PM
Jose
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This is an old horse and I almost hate to bring it up again, but are you
aware you can legally accept direct FUBAR as a /U under IFR, and monitor
your progress with a handheld GPS?


AFAIK this only applies in a radar environment, where it's like vectors.

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #6  
Old February 26th 05, 04:04 PM
Newps
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Dan Thompson wrote:
This is an old horse and I almost hate to bring it up again, but are you
aware you can legally accept direct FUBAR as a /U under IFR, and monitor
your progress with a handheld GPS?


You're not cleared direct. You're given a vector that is essentially
direct. /G allows you to accept a clearance "direct FUBAR."



Currently the only reason one ever needs an IFR GPS is to fly a GPS
approach.


A terminal/enroute only box allows you to eliminate your ADF and DME
which is very handy if you fly a lot of ILS and VOR approaches anyways.

  #7  
Old February 26th 05, 04:09 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default


"Newps" wrote in message
...

You're not cleared direct. You're given a vector that is essentially
direct. /G allows you to accept a clearance "direct FUBAR."


No, you're cleared direct. There are no restrictions on direct clearances
based on the filed equipment suffix.


  #8  
Old February 26th 05, 04:41 PM
Dan Luke
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"Colin W Kingsbury" wrote:
...so I suppose us non-golf folks are becoming a
rare species. How long before we're extinct?


Depends on what kind of flying you do. If you don't fly IFR to small
airports, the lack of an approach certified GPS is no big deal--a
portable one will serve you just fine for years, probably.

But if you *do* fly IFR to small airports, you're already a flying
fossil.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM


  #9  
Old February 26th 05, 05:00 PM
Paul Tomblin
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In a previous article, Newps said:
A terminal/enroute only box allows you to eliminate your ADF and DME
which is very handy if you fly a lot of ILS and VOR approaches anyways.


Don't get rid of your ADF and DME if you want to fly to Canada some time,
though.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"Harry very carefully read the manual - four times - because Snape would
cut off his breathing privs if he asked him a question that the manual
could answer..." -- Harry Potter and the Book Of The BOFH
  #10  
Old February 26th 05, 05:14 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Don't get rid of your ADF and DME if you want to fly to Canada some time,
though.


Or if you need to fly an NDB approach that has no GPS overlay, or an
approach similar to the VOR/DME RWY 15 at Martin State Airport.


 




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