Holding Pattern Question

If you lose either TX or RX, then you don't have two-way communications.
Therefore you have two-way radio communications failure and should
operate
according to 91.185.


If you lose just transmitter or just receiver you can still communicate
one-way. Two-way radio communications failure means loss of both
transmitter and receiver.

This argument reminds me of the debate of which is the inner or outer knob
on our GPSs.

Kobra

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
If the hold isn't issued and things don't go as expected and comm is lost,
then you have an airplane coming in the airspace unwanted, but at a known
and predictable time since you are tracking it on radar.


Not issuing the hold was not part of any scenario.

It was exactly the scenario YOU posted and I replied to. Nice of you to
trim the posts so as to lose the context. As a reminder, here is what
you posted on 9/24/2007 at 9:22 PM:

"Well, if things don't go as expected, what do you think can cause the
greater problem, not issuing the EFC, or not issuing the hold? "

What part of "or not issuing the hold?" didn't you understand when you
wrote it?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Say What? ;-)


If it's just your transmitter that has failed you have not experienced a
two-way radio communications failure. Better the second time?



If you lose either TX or RX, then you don't have two-way communications.
Therefore you have two-way radio communications failure and should
operate
according to 91.185.


If you lose just transmitter or just receiver you can still communicate
one-way. Two-way radio communications failure means loss of both
transmitter and receiver.


Steve, quit being so argumentative and think for a change. Two-way
communication means the radio (hence operator) can send (1 way) and receive
(1 way). If you lose the transmitter or the receiver you are no longer in
two-way communication, although you may in fact still be in one-way
communication. How much simpler can that be?

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

Jim Carter wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
...

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Say What? ;-)


If it's just your transmitter that has failed you have not experienced a
two-way radio communications failure. Better the second time?



If you lose either TX or RX, then you don't have two-way communications.
Therefore you have two-way radio communications failure and should
operate
according to 91.185.


If you lose just transmitter or just receiver you can still communicate
one-way. Two-way radio communications failure means loss of both
transmitter and receiver.



Steve, quit being so argumentative and think for a change. Two-way
communication means the radio (hence operator) can send (1 way) and receive
(1 way). If you lose the transmitter or the receiver you are no longer in
two-way communication, although you may in fact still be in one-way
communication. How much simpler can that be?

If you still have a transponder and a receiver you still have two-way.

Or perhaps a transponder and VOR voice.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
If you really lose comm, waiting until your ETA is the correct procedure.


Why?


Because you own the block of airspace assigned to you. Someone else owns
the block of airspace ahead of and behind you. You wait until your EFC
time so that you don't blunder into the guy ahead in IFR conditions.

Rip

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Why not?


Waiting for the ETA ties up airspace and delays other aircraft.


ATC won't clear anyone into your block of airspace until after your EFC
time to prevent two aircraft in IMC from using the same space.

Rip

rip wrote:

Because you own the block of airspace assigned to you. Someone else owns
the block of airspace ahead of and behind you. You wait until your EFC
time so that you don't blunder into the guy ahead in IFR conditions.

When you go NORDO ATC is going to clear everyone else out of your way.
Just get on the ground and relieve ATC of their misery.

DGB

rip wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
Waiting for the ETA ties up airspace and delays other aircraft.

ATC won't clear anyone into your block of airspace until after your EFC
time to prevent two aircraft in IMC from using the same space.

The discussion is about ETA, not EFC.

Mark Hansen wrote in
:

If you lose just transmitter or just receiver you can still
communicate one-way. Two-way radio communications failure means loss
of both transmitter and receiver.



That's ridiculous.

"Bugsmasher 34 Romeo, if you read, squawk 4221"

On 09/27/07 11:44, John Godwin wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote in
:

If you lose just transmitter or just receiver you can still
communicate one-way. Two-way radio communications failure means loss
of both transmitter and receiver.



That's ridiculous.

"Bugsmasher 34 Romeo, if you read, squawk 4221"

Yes, you could also use smoke signals, rock your wings, etc. - However,
if you think that losing your transmitter during an IFR flight is not
considered a "two way radio communications failure" as used in 91.185
you're fooling yourself.